Trivia: shortest path to reverse a train from a terminus platform

[61653 HTAFC]

Leeds P13 to Woodlesford, Normanton, Wakefield Kirkgate, Wakefield Westgate, and back to Leeds P13 must be in with a shout for being a short "loop".

 

[Haywain]

An interesting sub plot is terminal stations where it is impossible to go round a loop and arrive back in the same platform. A few candidates here are Sheringham, Chingford, Looe and St Ives.

Further to that is the doubly impossible, with Pickering on the NYMR being an example.

 

[Taunton]

If I am reading the OP correctly, there is an important constraint that the train should arrive in the same platform from which it departed.

This might rule out the Kingston loop.

There are multiple crossovers which allow anything from Clapham Junction to access anything at Waterloo. It has actually been used occasionally to turn trains round which had got wrong-way-round, sometimes by sending them on a scheduled trip in place of the normal stock. Once done with an 8-car REP/TC formation via Kingston, where the buffet attendant stayed open and actually made some sales!

 

[The exile]

That wouldn't be necessary. Out and back via the Highland main line would do it.

 

[Peter0124]

Glasgow Queen Street - Edinburgh Suburban - Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen Street

EDIT - There's actually a shorter route:
Queen Street - Maryhill - Anniesland - Queen Street (Low Level) - Springburn - Queen Street
Which manages to actually pass BELOW the platform it started from to end back at that platform. Are there any other examples of where this would be possible?

 

[CM Punk]

Nottingham P5 - Sheffield (via Beighton) - Nottingham P5 (via Dronfield)

 

[Magdalia]

An interesting sub plot is terminal stations where it is impossible to go round a loop and arrive back in the same platform. A few candidates here are Sheringham, Chingford, Looe and St Ives.

Further to that is the doubly impossible, with Pickering on the NYMR being an example.

Which reminds me to add Whitby to the impossible list.

Pwllheli has reminded me that Blaenau Ffestiniog is also impossible.

 

[gravitystorm]

Kingston Loop was my first guess, at roughly 26.5 miles.

However there's a much shorter loop from Victoria - going Brixton, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham Hill and from there onwards to Victoria, at approximately 11.5 miles. Anything shorter than that?

 

[Nottingham59]

Anything shorter than that?

Blackfriars to Peckham Rye and back would be shorter, I think

EDIT: Depends of whether trains from London Bridge can access the terminating platforms at Blackfriars.

 

[Purple Train]

Blackfriars to Peckham Rye and back would be shorter, I think

EDIT: Depends of whether trains from London Bridge can access the terminating platforms at Blackfriars.

I don't think they can, but my only source is Open Train Times so I am happy to be corrected.

 

[Mat17]

Not a booked service, but surely Leeds to Wakefield Westgate, down the line to Kirkgate and then back to Leeds via Woodlesford. There's a few platforms from Leeds you could do that with too.

 

[greatkingrat]

Kingston Loop was my first guess, at roughly 26.5 miles.

However there's a much shorter loop from Victoria - going Brixton, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham Hill and from there onwards to Victoria, at approximately 11.5 miles. Anything shorter than that?

Cathcart Circle in Glasgow is only about 7 miles

 

[SeanG]

Metrocentre must be in with a shout, trains terminate there and it isn't far to Newcastle/Gateshead to loop over the river

 

[Nottingham59]

Rock Ferry - platform 3?

That's 7m 47ch, according to realtimetrains for the 0544h this morning.

Realtime Trains | 2Y00 0544½ Rock Ferry to Ellesmere Port | 15/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 2Y00 0544½ departure from Rock Ferry to Ellesmere Port on 15/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT:
Cathcart circle is 8m 4ch

Realtime Trains | 2O38 1451 Glasgow Central to Glasgow Central | 15/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 2O38 1451 departure from Glasgow Central to Glasgow Central on 15/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[4COR]

An option for Cannon St (and I guess Charing Cross) would I think be via Greenwich, Slade Green and Blackheath.

 

[Howardh]

Brighton? Out towards Hove, reverse towards Preston Park, back into Brighton?

 

[DanNCL]

Pre-1977 you could have gone from an East facing bay at Newcastle via Jesmond, Gosforth, Benton and Heaton to turn a train. That surely can’t be any more than 10 miles.

A long one would be St James on the Tyne & Wear Metro. It’s not possible entirely on Nexus infrastructure and the only usable connection to Network Rail infrastructure is southbound onto the Durham Coast line which would leave you having to go via Norton and Stillington then back to Newcastle to turn via the Bridges, then the same again in reverse to get back to St James. There is no stock capable of doing that route, unlike the South Hylton example I gave earlier which can be done with the 950 or an MPV.

For locations that are impossible I have the following:
Looe (doubly impossible as reversals required at Coombe Junction and again at Liskeard)
Liskeard bay platform (doubly impossible as two reversals required to get from the bay platform towards Plymouth)
St Erth bay platform (doubly impossible as two reversals required to get from the bay platform towards Plymouth)
St Ives (reversal required at St Erth)
Gunnislake (reversal required at Bere Alston)
Blaenau Ffestiniog (reversal required at Llandudno Junction)
Stourbridge Town (reversal required at Stourbridge Junction)
Mallaig (reversal required at Fort William)
Thurso (reversal required at Georgemas Junction)
Pickering (doubly impossible as reversals required at Grosmont and Battersby)
Whitby (reversal required at Battersby)
Sheringham (reversal required at Cromer)
Brixton (LU) (reversal required at Finsbury Park)
Morden (LU) (reversal required at Leicester Square to access Kennington loop)
Battersea Power Station (LU) (reversal required at Leicester Square to access Kennington loop)
Aldwych (LU) (reversal required between Holborn and Russell Square)

Metrocentre must be in with a shout, trains terminate there and it isn't far to Newcastle/Gateshead to loop over the river

Not a bay platform though.

 

[Theburritoz]

Edit: Misread OP.

 

[Haywain]

Brighton? Out towards Hove, reverse towards Preston Park, back into Brighton?

That's not without reversing then, is it.

For locations that are impossible I have the following:

I'll add Cardiff Bay and Marlow.

 

[BayPaul]

Now I'm wondering what the longest "shortest" route is.

I am probably wrong, but from Euston HS2 side, (once phase 1 is complete) I can't see a loop closer than going via Liverpool James St!

 

[Haywain]

Now I'm wondering what the longest "shortest" route is.

Wick looks like it would be around 650 miles round trip!

 

[Howardh]

That's not without reversing then, is it.

Point made!

 

[Nottingham59]

Stalybridge platform 2, via Phillips Park and Ashbury must be around 10 miles

 

[Magdalia]

For locations that are impossible I have the following:
Looe (doubly impossible as reversals required at Coombe Junction and again at Liskeard)
Liskeard bay platform (doubly impossible as two reversals required to get from the bay platform towards Plymouth)
St Erth bay platform (doubly impossible as two reversals required to get from the bay platform towards Plymouth)
St Ives (reversal required at St Erth)
Gunnislake (reversal required at Bere Alston)
Blaenau Ffestiniog (reversal required at Llandudno Junction)
Stourbridge Town (reversal required at Stourbridge Junction)
Mallaig (reversal required at Fort William)
Thurso (reversal required at Georgemas Junction)
Pickering (doubly impossible as reversals required at Grosmont and Battersby)
Whitby (reversal required at Battersby)
Sheringham (reversal required at Cromer)

You have missed out Chingford (reversal required at Liverpool Street).

 

[Class15]

You have missed out Chingford (reversal required at Liverpool Street).

Or at somewhere like London Fields.

I don't think they can, but my only source is Open Train Times so I am happy to be corrected.

Correct - the terminating platforms at Blackfriars are only accessible from the lines to Elephant & Castle.

 

[MadMac]

Glasgow Queen Street - Edinburgh Suburban - Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen Street

EDIT - There's actually a shorter route:
Queen Street - Maryhill - Anniesland - Queen Street (Low Level) - Springburn - Queen Street
Which manages to actually pass BELOW the platform it started from to end back at that platform. Are there any other examples of where this would be possible?

Glasgow Central - Rutherglen (West-North Curve) - Argyle Line through Central Low Level - Anniesland - Maryhill - Springburn - Gartcosh - Coatbridge Central - Carmyle - Glasgow Central.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Rochdale has two opposite facing termi platforms, for the Todmoden bound one you would have to go via Normanton/Woodlesford

The Manchester bound platform I think the shortest route would have to go via Eccles, Warrington and Northwich.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Rochdale has two opposite facing termi platforms, for the Todmoden bound one you would have to go via Normanton/Woodlesford

The Manchester bound platform I think the shortest route would have to go via Eccles, Warrington and Northwich.

Are there any connections remaining between Network Rail and the Metrolink Oldham Loop line? As such a move is permitted by the OP that could make things interesting, though I haven't tried to map anything out in my head.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Are there any connections remaining between Network Rail and the Metrolink Oldham Loop line?

Not at the Rochdale side (although I think there is by Newton Heath depot).
And even if you could use the tram line you then have to go via Huddersfield or Darwen to get back to the platform.

 

[duffield]

Nottingham P5 - Sheffield (via Beighton) - Nottingham P5 (via Dronfield)

Nottingham P2 (east facing bay) has got me scratching my head for something not too ridiculous!