[Trivia] Things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be.

[thenorthern]

After watching an old episode of Railcops I noticed that someone was stopped for going up an escalator the wrong way. The officer involved mentioned it was against railway bylaws to which I checked and it indeed is "No person shall use any escalator except by standing or walking on it in the direction intended for travel." in the "EQUIPMENT AND SAFETY" section of the bylaws.

I was surprised that it's illegal as although it's a nuisance when people go up an escalator the wrong way I didn't expect it to be illegal.

It made me think though what other things are illegal on the railways that you don't expect to be?

One common one i see is that it's illegal to protest in a railway station which isn't really a surprise but many groups still try it particularly at Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly during conference season.

 

[TUC]

The railway does seem to have a habit of using bylaws to make illegal activities that other organisations would disapprove of, but don't need legislation to prevent it. For example, if you go the wrong way up an escalator in a shop you will get told to get off and use the correct one, but no legislation is needed. I'm not sure why the railway feels the need for anything more,

 

[Western 52]

It can make the railway seem like quite an unfriendly place to be sometimes. I heard part of an announcement at Cardiff Queen Street recently telling people something or other was an offence under byelaw 30. It seems a bit austere.

 

[Spartacus]

Entering though a door while someone else is exiting through it. There's a heck of a lot of passengers in the last 20 years who've broken that one.

 

[greyman42]

After watching an old episode of Railcops I noticed that someone was stopped for going up an escalator the wrong way. The officer involved mentioned it was against railway bylaws to which I checked and it indeed is "No person shall use any escalator except by standing or walking on it in the direction intended for travel." in the "EQUIPMENT AND SAFETY" section of the bylaws.

I was surprised that it's illegal as although it's a nuisance when people go up an escalator the wrong way I didn't expect it to be illegal.

It made me think though what other things are illegal on the railways that you don't expect to be?

One common one i see is that it's illegal to protest in a railway station which isn't really a surprise but many groups still try it particularly at Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly during conference season.

I remember in the opening titles of one of the London Underground documentaries, a middle aged suited "city gentleman" trying to walk up a downward escalator after a Friday afternoon drinking session.

 

[BrummieBobby]

I am always amazed at the number of passengers that seem to think that buying a full, valid ticket for their journey before being challenged by a guard or RPI is an optional observance.

 

[thenorthern]

I am always amazed at the number of passengers that seem to think that buying a full, valid ticket for their journey before being challenged by a guard or RPI is an optional observance.

And then the not understanding that the penalty isn't just a requirement to pay the full fare.

 

[ValentaFan1974]

I believe singing or playing music on a train is also illegal under byelaws - it comes under “nuisance”

 

[matt_world2004]

Isn't loitering against the bylaws making it illegal to wait for a train

 

[Watershed]

Isn't loitering against the bylaws making it illegal to wait for a train

Firstly, the definition of loitering (it takes its "ordinary", man on the Clapham omnibus meaning since it's not defined in the Byelaw) implies that you're staying somewhere without purpose, or with a purpose that doesn't match the intended use of that place.

Train stations, platforms and waiting rooms etc. are provided for people to wait until their train arrives. So you're not loitering by waiting for your train.

Furthermore, it's also only an offence if you continue to loiter after having been asked to leave. The mere act of loitering isn't an offence on its own.

 

[43066]

I believe singing or playing music on a train is also illegal under byelaws - it comes under “nuisance”

I wish that one, above all others, would be more rigorously enforced (or even just enforced at all!).

 

[Edsmith]

I am always amazed at the number of passengers that seem to think that buying a full, valid ticket for their journey before being challenged by a guard or RPI is an optional observance.

Perhaps not surprising when you factor in the minor detail that it's often not possible to buy the ticket you require before boarding.

 

[BrummieBobby]

Perhaps not surprising when you factor in the minor detail that it's often not possible to buy the ticket you require before boarding.

In rural, unstaffed areas or in situations where an unusual / very specific ticket is required, I agree.

However in my experience in the West Midlands, with staffed ticket offices, vending machines offering a wide range of tickets and online purchasing options, there is no excuse for being collared at the barriers at Wolverhampton for lack of a single from Coseley, or for bring one of the many passengers who have travelled some distance to New St, only to request a single from Duddeston or Adderley Park when approaching the "Fares to Pay" window.

 

[43066]

Perhaps not surprising when you factor in the minor detail that it's often not possible to buy the ticket you require before boarding.

If you genuinely can’t* buy before boarding you’re entitled to do so at your first opportunity.

*ie situations where the ticket office is closed and the TVM is absent/broken, not where you simply didn’t leave enough time, there was a long queue etc.

 

[Alanko]

I am always amazed at the number of passengers that seem to think that buying a full, valid ticket for their journey before being challenged by a guard or RPI is an optional observance.

Is this an English thing? I used to do this commonly on ScotRail trains twenty years ago. I had to do it again last month as one ticket machine had a frozen screen and the other had a server stack dump displayed on screen at my local station. The conductor didn't question it at all, just sold me my tickets. I didn't have to provide any explanation.

 

[MP393]

It can make the railway seem like quite an unfriendly place to be sometimes. I heard part of an announcement at Cardiff Queen Street recently telling people something or other was an offence under byelaw 30. It seems a bit austere.

That’s the announcement for cycling, skateboard, rollerblades etc, which is made at TfW stations with the added part about bylaw 30, of course it is made at other stations across the national rail network as well, just without the added mention of which bylaw they’re breaking!

 

[AlterEgo]

Is this an English thing? I used to do this commonly on ScotRail trains twenty years ago. I had to do it again last month as one ticket machine had a frozen screen and the other had a server stack dump displayed on screen at my local station. The conductor didn't question it at all, just sold me my tickets. I didn't have to provide any explanation.

Scotland doesn’t really have private prosecutions so the enforcement of ticketless passengers is very different.

 

[Watershed]

Is this an English thing? I used to do this commonly on ScotRail trains twenty years ago. I had to do it again last month as one ticket machine had a frozen screen and the other had a server stack dump displayed on screen at my local station. The conductor didn't question it at all, just sold me my tickets. I didn't have to provide any explanation.

I think it's more a Scottish thing to be able to buy onboard. That's because Penalty Fares don't apply in Scotland, and it's essentially impossible to bring a private prosecution so it's nugatory that buying onboard is an offence if there are ticket buying facilities.

In Scotland, the penalty for buying onboard is essentially just that you might have to pay the undiscounted Anytime fare, and that you might have a long queue to buy a ticket if you haven't got a ticket by the time you get to your (barriered) destination.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You don't have to get very far into the railway byelaws to encounter things you wouldn't expect to be illegal. Byelaw 1 states it is illegal not to join the end of a queue!

 

[43066]

You don't have to get very far into the railway byelaws to encounter things you wouldn't expect to be illegal. Byelaw 1 states it is illegal not to join the end of a queue!

Hardly likely to be a problem, other than for those who like to barge straight to the front.

I can’t see anything in the bylaws that should be an issue for anyone who behaves like a co-operative, respectful and decent person while using the railway.

The biggest shame is they they aren’t enforced more rigorously.

 

[Taunton]

Isn't loitering against the bylaws

Presumably this makes the classic "trainspotter" at the platform end illegal.

Surprising how Mr Ian Allan made a whole business out of such activity then.

 

[Gaelan]

ie situations where the ticket office is closed and the TVM is absent/broken, not where you simply didn’t leave enough time, there was a long queue etc.

This does seem a little silly, as it puts the onus on the passenger to arrive at the station arbitrarily early, with no upper bound—I generally aim to arrive 10-20 minutes before the train, but what if the ticket machine's broken and I find myself behind several clueless tourists? I've had a close call along these lines before (collecting a TOD ticket). It certainly doesn't seem reasonable to expect more than 20 minutes.

It seems to me that there ought to be a rule along the lines of "if you show up at the station x minutes beforehand, and make a reasonable effort to buy a ticket as quickly as possible, and there isn't time, you can buy on board" (a reasonable value for x might be the station's minimum connection time). Hard to enforce, though.

 

[43066]

This does seem a little silly, as it puts the onus on the passenger to arrive at the station arbitrarily early, with no upper bound—I generally aim to arrive 10-20 minutes before the train, but what if the ticket machine's broken and I find myself behind several clueless tourists? I've had a close call along these lines before (collecting a TOD ticket). It certainly doesn't seem reasonable to expect more than 20 minutes.

Possibly less of an issue these days when there is a plethora of ways to buy tickets but, ultimately, the onus is on the passenger to leave enough time. You wouldn’t be able to leave a supermarket without paying for your groceries just because you were rushing and the queue was longer than you expected.

It seems to me that there ought to be a rule along the lines of "if you show up at the station x minutes beforehand, and make a reasonable effort to buy a ticket as quickly as possible, and there isn't time, you can buy on board" (a reasonable value for x might be the station's minimum connection time). Hard to enforce, though.

Impossible to realistically enforce as you say, so a non starter.

 

[Markdvdman]

There is also the law in stations north of Pontypridd no alcohol allowed - sometimes it is enforced but I have heard in the past - "Sorry, I did not realise" - as if!!! Also, a few weeks back I was making my way to Port Talbot on a Saturday morning (a rail strike day ironically) - and a party of people going to Cardiff for a Birthday celebration, were drinking Koppaberg from Merthyr about 8 of them. Do not get me wrong they were no trouble whatsoever, young and happy. The guard just laughed along - so no enforement there. Mind you that was common sense they were not 'alcoholics' on a wanton wave of havoc. Still it is a sensible byelaw and later at Cardiff a guy was drinking a bottle of vodka very drunk indeed and passengers wanted to batter him for the way he spoke to passengers and partners, kids etc. Luckily, those guys just either walked off or just brushed him off. He was going to Swansea I believe - I got off at Port Talbot. As it was a strike day it was a rammed 2 car 153 so no guards came through at least to Port Talbot t- unless somebody notified BTP for further on (hopefully!).

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Dogs must be carried on escalators. So if you don't have a dog with you you'll have to use the stairs.

 

[Turtle]

Dogs must be carried on escalators. So if you don't have a dog with you you'll have to use the stairs.

Helps keep you fit though.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The biggest shame is they they aren’t enforced more rigorously.

Well, that's a surprise. On a different thread when I said train companies should put more effort into preventing anti-social behaviour and less into putting out nonsense press releases about it you told me I was wrong. Now you say the same thing. Not that you are deliberately argumentative or anything.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I believe singing or playing music on a train is also illegal under byelaws - it comes under “nuisance”

My local rail users group have music trains.

 

[43066]

Well, that's a surprise. On a different thread when I said train companies should put more effort into preventing anti-social behaviour and less into putting out nonsense press releases about it you told me I was wrong. Now you say the same thing. Not that you are deliberately argumentative or anything.

On the contrary, I haven’t said anything of the sort. On the other thread I simply pointed out that putting out press releases and better enforcing bylaws aren’t mutually exclusive, as a few people such as yourself were - quite wrongly - suggesting.

By bringing that up on this thread it appears to be you who is being deliberately argumentative.

 

[RJ]

It can make the railway seem like quite an unfriendly place to be sometimes. I heard part of an announcement at Cardiff Queen Street recently telling people something or other was an offence under byelaw 30. It seems a bit austere.

Usually reminders like that are put in place with such prominence when there’s been a history of breaches causing issues on a regular basis at that location.

I’ll listen out for it next time I’m there as it has piqued my curiosity as to what it could be.