Trivia: Unusual diesel loco combinations in the BR era

[6Gman]

In various eras in the diesel age a 27 + 20 or 37 + 20 was not un-common on the 06.00 Queen St to Fort William but still an unusual combination for a passenger train.

In about 1963/64 (as a small child) I boarded the Sleeper at Kings Cross and alighted at Spean Bridge (!) to find a 27 + 20 on the front end, which was certainly a surprise. And definitely the only time I ever had that combination for haulage.

 

[gg1]

Regarding steam & diesel, due to the chronic unreliability of diesel loco steam heating boilers, it wasn't unheard of for steam locos to be coupled between the diesel loco and train purely to provide heating in instances where no diesel loco with a working boiler was available.

 

[6Gman]

Elsewhere, if a diesel failed, any available steam loco might be used to shift it, sometimes only for short distances.
Once, after 2 hours with a failed 46 (D193) in the middle of Standedge Tunnel, a tender first Black 5 arrived and towed us as far as Manchester Victoria, where both were replaced.

The Xpress Publications book about the Peak District has an account (rather hair raising) of an 8F rescuing a Peak-hauled 0725 Manchester - St Pancras from Disley to Derby. 8F hauling 11 coaches + 118 tons of dead loco.

At the National Rail Museum, York, the house shunter (is it an 03 or more exotic?) moving a Deltic around. Did look rather David & Goliath.

My wife and I were once on the footplate of the Carnforth 03 while it repositioned 60103, that quite well known loco built at Doncaster.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

In about 1963/64 (as a small child) I boarded the Sleeper at Kings Cross and alighted at Spean Bridge (!) to find a 27 + 20 on the front end, which was certainly a surprise. And definitely the only time I ever had that combination for haulage.

You Tube has a video of a 1964 trip from Arrochar to Fort William with a 27 and 20 combination which might re-kindle your memories.

you tube 1964 arrochar fort william - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[AidWall]

I have been observing trains on and around the Brighton line for many years. Double heading is extremely rare. I only remember one occasion from way back (early/mid-1970s) when a 31/37 pair worked an oil train through Redhill, I presume bound for the terminal at Salfords. At that time, the trains were usually worked by a single 37. I have no idea why the 31 was added but I do remember both locos were working.

 

[USRailFan]

Lowland Locomotives (a website that unfortunately no longer exists) had a photo of an MGR at Carlisle (or was it Carstairs?) with a Class 26+56 combo

 

[hexagon789]

16/03/78 - 37221 and 55005 on the down Aberdonian. Both locos powering, the 37 piloted to York.

 

[delt1c]

You Tube has a video of a 1964 trip from Arrochar to Fort William with a 27 and 20 combination which might re-kindle your memories.

you tube 1964 arrochar fort william - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Not that uncommon, some 20’s were through piped ( for steam heating) and worked the WHL sometimes on passenger for a return freight

 

[75A]

I have been observing trains on and around the Brighton line for many years. Double heading is extremely rare. I only remember one occasion from way back (early/mid-1970s) when a 31/37 pair worked an oil train through Redhill, I presume bound for the terminal at Salfords. At that time, the trains were usually worked by a single 37. I have no idea why the 31 was added but I do remember both locos were working.

In the 80's on Summer Saturdays the Brighton / Exeter was always double headed by a pair of 33's.
As were the Fawley / Salfords tanks.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Not that uncommon, some 20’s were through piped ( for steam heating) and worked the WHL sometimes on passenger for a return freight

As per post no 4.

 

[Richard Scott]

Martin Loader (hondawander) comes to the rescue once more, as he has a pic of a 56+47 combo on a Euston - Holyhead working at Beeston Castle in March 1987; the 56 in question being 040 Oystermouth post-overhaul as opposed to being fresh out the box.

56040 & 47586 Beeston Castle 12 March 1987

www.hondawanderer.com

Yet another odd combo that involved a 56 is linked below (from the New Gold Dreamer YT channel), with 56035 piloting a 31/4 (31413) during the Network NorthEast Day (20th October 1990):

We're quite a few odd combinations I can think of on one off specials. 56020 piloted 20007/20032 on a tour on the Southern Region. Sure had a 56/33 combination on a few tours and a 37/56 combination. Sure there was a picture in a magazine years ago of 46026 and 50014 on a service train in Devon.

 

[Spamcan81]

Back in the mid 1980s I saw a 25/40 combination on the S&C. No idea if that was an unusual combination or not. In the privation era I saw a 66/92 combination on a scrap metal train at Hitchin.

 

[Whistler40145]

Have seen a video of a 25 in multiple with a 37/4 leaving Shrewsbury on a Cambrian Coast service

 

[AidWall]

In the 80's on Summer Saturdays the Brighton / Exeter was always double headed by a pair of 33's.
As were the Fawley / Salfords tanks.

Thanks for your comment.
I was well aware of the Brighton/Exeter trains using 2 x 33s but that route falls outside my definition of the Brighton line. I never saw double headed 33s visiting Salfords so thanks for the information.
Getting back on topic, have you ever seen anything in the area which compares with the 31+37 to which I referred?

 

[75A]

Thanks for your comment.
I was well aware of the Brighton/Exeter trains using 2 x 33s but that route falls outside my definition of the Brighton line. I never saw double headed 33s visiting Salfords so thanks for the information.
Getting back on topic, have you ever seen anything in the area which compares with the 31+37 to which I referred?

The double headers on the Fawley / Salfords were late 70's, early 80's, also at this time were double headed 33's on the stone trains from the west to Ardingly, which could be seen @ Haywards Heath, Brighton crews took over these turns @ Chichester, ran to Hove (later Preston Park) for relief then to Ardingly and back and to Havant for relief.
The heaviness of the train from a standing start, made to Cliftonville curve difficult so the crew swap was moved from Hove to Preston Park.

As to a 31/37 combination, or anything else 'different' sorry no.

Most months there were Football Specials to Hove but 99% of these were 33's worked south by Norwood men, we would take over @ Hove, run them down to Littlehampton, wait a couple of hours then take them back to Norwood men @ Hove.

 

[Harvester]

also at this time were double headed 33's on the stone trains from the west to Ardingly, which could be seen @ Haywards Heath

The Cliffe to Uddingston cement train introduced in 1961, was booked for a pair of 33s down the ECML as far as York. One Crompton could handle the load, except the climb up Stoke Bank, so in the event of a failure, Peterborough would often replace the pair with a 9F or A2.

 

[AidWall]

The double headers on the Fawley / Salfords were late 70's, early 80's, also at this time were double headed 33's on the stone trains from the west to Ardingly, which could be seen @ Haywards Heath, Brighton crews took over these turns @ Chichester, ran to Hove (later Preston Park) for relief then to Ardingly and back and to Havant for relief.
The heaviness of the train from a standing start, made to Cliftonville curve difficult so the crew swap was moved from Hove to Preston Park.

As to a 31/37 combination, or anything else 'different' sorry no.

Most months there were Football Specials to Hove but 99% of these were 33's worked south by Norwood men, we would take over @ Hove, run them down to Littlehampton, wait a couple of hours then take them back to Norwood men @ Hove.

What really fascinating stuff! As I look back, the Brighton line in the 1970s/1980s was far from a constant stream of VEPs and CIGs. Maybe you on occasion took the Brighton team and supporters to away matches in the rake of Mark 1s supplemented by a single Pullman for the team?
Getting a bit more on topic, I never once saw a double header going east or west from Redhill, despite the considerable variety of trains and traction on the route over the years.

 

[75A]

What really fascinating stuff! As I look back, the Brighton line in the 1970s/1980s was far from a constant stream of VEPs and CIGs. Maybe you on occasion took the Brighton team and supporters to away matches in the rake of Mark 1s supplemented by a single Pullman for the team?
Getting a bit more on topic, I never once saw a double header going east or west from Redhill, despite the considerable variety of trains and traction on the route over the years.

I was never personally on any of the Seagull Specials, either in the cab or as a fan in the mk1's.
I remember being on a 'spare turn' when 3 specials left for Highbury & Islington & the F.A.Cup Semi Final, they were all single hauled by 33's.
I went to both the final & replay with Man Utd, but they were just service trains.

A funny story for you - my cousin went on the last game of the season special to Newcastle.
He was so busy celebrating promotion that he missed the return & eventually got back home to Bognor on the Monday!

A very unusual midweek turn involving football, was going 'pass' to Clapham Junction in the middle of the night, picking up a 33 with a dozen mk1's and running non stop to Lewes where we were relieved, the train then went down to Newhaven Marine where the sleepy Liverpool fans headed for the ferry and ultimately St Etienne.

I'm a Pompey fan and vividly remember going midweek from Portsmouth & Southsea to Lincoln on a Footex with a single 33 all the way there and back.

 

[Strathclyder]

We're quite a few odd combinations I can think of on one off specials. 56020 piloted 20007/20032 on a tour on the Southern Region. Sure had a 56/33 combination on a few tours and a 37/56 combination. Sure there was a picture in a magazine years ago of 46026 and 50014 on a service train in Devon.

Here's one that instantly came to mind: the West of England Coalpower tour run on 15th November 1992 (Waterloo - Exeter & return), with 56039 & 33114 in charge of the Salisbury <-> Exeter St. Davids legs of the tour (linked video from the Stapleton Road YT channel). The gradient between St. Davids & Central (predictably) meant that both were more or less fully notched up here!

 

[AidWall]

I was never personally on any of the Seagull Specials, either in the cab or as a fan in the mk1's.
I remember being on a 'spare turn' when 3 specials left for Highbury & Islington & the F.A.Cup Semi Final, they were all single hauled by 33's.
I went to both the final & replay with Man Utd, but they were just service trains.

A funny story for you - my cousin went on the last game of the season special to Newcastle.
He was so busy celebrating promotion that he missed the return & eventually got back home to Bognor on the Monday!

A very unusual midweek turn involving football, was going 'pass' to Clapham Junction in the middle of the night, picking up a 33 with a dozen mk1's and running non stop to Lewes where we were relieved, the train then went down to Newhaven Marine where the sleepy Liverpool fans headed for the ferry and ultimately St Etienne.

I'm a Pompey fan and vividly remember going midweek from Portsmouth & Southsea to Lincoln on a Footex with a single 33 all the way there and back.

At the risk of straying off topic……
I am always surprised by the range of destinations that the 33s managed to reach which would appear to be outside the route knowledge of SR drivers.
Besides your trip to Lincoln, there were 33s that used to work to Spalding flower festival (as well as Hastings DEMUs) and there were the two consecutive days in 1986 when 33s worked passenger services from Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn. Presumably there must have been drivers at (say) Stratford who were signed to drive them?
Keep well

 

[D6968]

At the risk of straying off topic……
I am always surprised by the range of destinations that the 33s managed to reach which would appear to be outside the route knowledge of SR drivers.
Besides your trip to Lincoln, there were 33s that used to work to Spalding flower festival (as well as Hastings DEMUs) and there were the two consecutive days in 1986 when 33s worked passenger services from Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn. Presumably there must have been drivers at (say) Stratford who were signed to drive them?
Keep well

Are you thinking of a Network Day when you mention 33’s going to Kings Lynn?

 

[AidWall]

Are you thinking of a Network Day when you mention 33’s going to Kings Lynn?

No. They were regular service trains in January (if I recall correctly).

 

[Magdalia]

At the risk of straying off topic……
... and there were the two consecutive days in 1986 when 33s worked passenger services from Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn. Presumably there must have been drivers at (say) Stratford who were signed to drive them?

Only once, 10/01/86 33038 worked 1205 to Kings Lynn and 1935 to Cambridge and the return workings.

Locos that were allocated to trains, but never worked, are rarely written down, so I'm relying on recollection here. I think that the previous day a class 33 was allocated to a train out of Liverpool Street but did not actually work.

And, trying to keep on topic, multiple locos on the Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn route were very unusual because of the platform length restrictions at Liverpool Street, but there are at least 2 known class 31+class 37 pairs in passenger service.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Lowland Locomotives (a website that unfortunately no longer exists) had a photo of an MGR at Carlisle (or was it Carstairs?) with a Class 26+56 combo

An absolutely wonderful website! Well it was mine so I am bound to say that The Flickr version still has the header with a 56+37 combo at Millerhill https://www.flickr.com/photos/gateside_and_northbridge/albums. The original site still exists on the Wayback Machine and there is one of a 37+37+20 combo on the Ravenscraig Ore https://web.archive.org/web/20040529105617/http://www.jhowie.f9.co.uk/mossendore.html I think the 26+56 combo was at Millerhill as well, I cant find that on but it probably is on my backup drive. Unfortunately the original site had to be dismantled as it became infected by a virus that was passed on to visitors when they opened up photographs.

 

[GS250]

Did the AC electrics ever work in multiple with different class numbers? Double heading of any kind (bar the 86/6) was always pretty rare though I believe.

 

[D6130]

IIRC, 86/87 combos were not unknown on Anglo-Scottish Freightliners during the 'seventies and 'eighties.

 

[Strathclyder]

Did the AC electrics ever work in multiple with different class numbers? Double heading of any kind (bar the 86/6) was always pretty rare though I believe.

IIRC, 86/87 combos were not unknown on Anglo-Scottish Freightliners during the 'seventies and 'eighties.

And on some other freight flows too, even into the 90s.

RMN67-4

3-2-90 Winwick 87020 & 86621 on a South bound loaded steel coil train Kodak Gold 200

www.flickr.com

(3-2-90 Winwick 87020 & 86621 on a South bound loaded steel coil train - copyright of Robert Catterson)

Another New Gold Dreamer gem showcasing the Network NorthWest Day (20th October 1990) with 26+31, 56+31 (as in post #29) and 20+20+31 combos all featuring:

 

[AidWall]

Only once, 10/01/86 33038 worked 1205 to Kings Lynn and 1935 to Cambridge and the return workings.

Locos that were allocated to trains, but never worked, are rarely written down, so I'm relying on recollection here. I think that the previous day a class 33 was allocated to a train out of Liverpool Street but did not actually work.

And, trying to keep on topic, multiple locos on the Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn route were very unusual because of the platform length restrictions at Liverpool Street, but there are at least 2 known class 31+class 37 pairs in passenger service.

You may well be right! My source of information was (I think) Jane’s Railway Year. I’m afraid I didn’t witness it personally!
From personal observation, I agree with your comment about double-heading in the area. The Whitemoor to Temple Mills freights were (late 1970s and early 1980s) often very lengthy consists but the only double-header I ever saw was a pair of Class 20s.

 

[alexl92]

The Xpress Publications book about the Peak District has an account (rather hair raising) of an 8F rescuing a Peak-hauled 0725 Manchester - St Pancras from Disley to Derby. 8F hauling 11 coaches + 118 tons of dead loco.


My wife and I were once on the footplate of the Carnforth 03 while it repositioned 60103, that quite well known loco built at Doncaster.

Just out of interest, what was so hair-raising about it? I'd imagine an 8F wouldn't struggle with 11 coaches + loco given their design for heavy freight?

 

[D1537]

Class 20 required I believe because it had sanding gear rather than for the actual weight of the train which would be well within 47 capability with good railhead conditions but with no sanders 47s could get into difficulty if it got a bit greasy.

I only once had a 20 as the pilot engine on 1S06, most times I went for it a 27 was used.

Photo - 27026 + 47541, 4/8/85