Trivial:- Calais and Boulogne Maritime stations

[Thewanderer]

The original TAC terminal seems from photos to have been adjacent to the Gare Maritime, but I don't recall using it on the one occasion we arrived at Boulogne by TAC (after that they moved to Calais, which made sense).
I would assume TAA1 was there and TAA2 nearer the main line, possibly on the site of the old B-Ville terminus? However online research hasn't yielded anything so far.
(TAA would be Trains Autos Accompagnees BTW)

Yes I've seen those photos but it was obviously the location was moved at some stage.

I missed it last night when looking at the Thomas Cooke Dec 1989 timetable that Boulogne has a map in it, which confirms where the TAC was. Now an industrial / distribution centre.

I reckon TAA1 was the TAC, but the 1989 timetable refers to both TAC and TAA1 just to confuse matters somewhat. But it helpfully tells you that TAA2 was at Boulogne Ville station.

Unless anybody can confirm different as to the location of TAA1?

 

[davetheguard]

O
F you got the hovercraft then presumably it's Boulogne hoverport station...just an island platform with a bit of canopy then disappears into a tunnel to the mainline

I caught a train to this station a couple of times myself - I think it was known as Boulogne Aeroglisseurs; can anyone confirm?

The connecting train from Paris was a rather comfortable fixed formation diesel train in an orange livery, with coaches of the Corail type. As has been said, you changed at Aeroglisseurs for the hovercraft to England. TAC station mentioned by Thewanderer is a different station to this one? I found a picture of the disused Aeroglisseurs station online credited to Jeremy-Gunther-Heinz Jaehnick. A drawing of the sort of boat train I mean is shown on the attached leaflet dating from 1992, which is not actually advertising the hovercraft at all, but the SeaCat via Boulogne Maritime station.

 

[Gloster]

I caught a train to this station a couple of times myself - I think it was known as Boulogne Aeroglisseurs; can anyone confirm?

The connecting train from Paris was a rather comfortable fixed formation diesel train in an orange livery, with coaches of the Corail type. As has been said, you changed at Aeroglisseurs for the hovercraft to England. TAC station mentioned by Thewanderer is a different station to this one? I found a picture of the disused Aeroglisseurs station online credited to Jeremy-Gunther-Heinz Jaehnick. A drawing of the sort of boat train I mean View attachment 89006View attachment 89007is shown on the attached leaflet dating from 1992, which is not actually advertising the hovercraft at all, but the SeaCat via Boulogne Maritime station.

RTG T 2000 gas turbine sets introduced in the early 1970s and used on the hoverport service until 1991. They had quite horrendous fuel consumption figures. Very comfortable though, except for the usual sticky seats on a hot day.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

That is co-incidence, I was just about to say that I came to Boulogne on the Hovercraft and caught a bus to the town centre, but saw the Hovercraft station, I thought I saw a red/yellow 2 carriage DMU in the sttaion, I presume going to Paris, which seemed to be a long journey in one of those type trains. I think I recall seeing something at Le Touquet Airport, where there were air-rail connections from Gatwick, Southend and I think Lydd using British Air Ferries and British Island Airways. The railway line crossed the runway and you could feel the bumps when the aircraft was taxing.

 

[Gloster]

Class X4300 Caravelle DMUs were used from the opening of the hoverport in 1970 until the arrival of the RTG a few years later; I think that they used to appear on occasions in the off season even after that.

According to the French Wikipedia, the very similar X4500 were only used on the Flèche d’argent in 1970 to 1972, being succeeded by RGP until the service ended in 1980. The flights had several operators and used a number of airports on this side of the Channel.

 

[Beebman]

I made two return journeys from the Aeroglisseurs station to Paris Nord. The first was in 1976 on Caravelle units (with rock hard seats) and the second was in 1988 with much more comfortable RTGs so I can indeed confirm that these types were used.

 

[Taunton]

Indeed. We went with the university study trip to Paris in Spring 1976 (best field trip ever; another story) using the Paris Travel inclusive arrangements, via Boulogne Hoverport. The connection was a 2-car Caravelle local service dmu, whose accommodation didn't even come up to a Cravens dmu in the UK, it not only had bolt-upright leatherette seats, but there were insufficient seats overall and a few ended up standing all the way to Paris. At least on the return a 4-car formation was provided.

1983, went again, far nicer RTG Turbotrain, vente-ambulante buffet trolley, etc. On the return, impressively, an announcement (French only) was it was too rough for the hovercraft, and we were being diverted to Calais and the ship. Train continued at speed over the hoverport junction without even slackening of speed, straight to Calais, where transfer buses were already lined up alongside. Beat that, any UK TOC. Well done SNCF.

 

[Thewanderer]

Would anybody recall the routing of the Boulogne to Narbonne Motorail train around the Paris suburbs and did it stop at a Paris station at all? Non public stop I think.

Also were the cars and coaches part of the same train or was it two separate trains?

 

[Gloster]

I never travelled on the train, but three answers from memory of bits I have read. The route would have been along the Grande Ceinture around the east of Paris. I very much doubt that there were any stops except for crew changing: the most likely location for that would be at or near Valenton Yard on the south-side of Paris. I believe the car-carriers were at the rear of the train.

 

[30907]

I never travelled on the train, but three answers from memory of bits I have read. The route would have been along the Grande Ceinture around the east of Paris. I very much doubt that there were any stops except for crew changing: the most likely location for that would be at or near Valenton Yard on the south-side of Paris. I believe the car-carriers were at the rear of the train.

From my own memories all that is correct (though I also recall stopping in Lyon Part-Dieu): the trains were never publicised as available for ordinary travellers.

Running the car-carriers as a separate train and sending the passengers on scheduled TGVs (or night trains) only became the norm in the last years of AutoTrain (the old titles were no longer appropriate of course) and only from Paris-Bercy. (Some routes were served that way in earlier years from Paris - in the early 70s they were labelled Auto-Express.)

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Combined train - and not bad stock actually - decent resturaunt car. It made a passenger call at Limoges and attached more car flats.

 

[Thewanderer]

Thanks folks for the replies and details. I did it in 1989 (I thought it was 1988 but my mother corrected me on that). I seem to recall Corail stock being used on the train I travelled on. She recalls stopping at a Paris Station but doesn't know which one hence my earlier question.

 

[30907]

Combined train - and not bad stock actually - decent resturaunt car. It made a passenger call at Limoges and attached more car flats.

Corail couchettes IIRC, but the restaurant had gone by the early 90s when I used it from Brive (not Limoges, surely?)

She recalls stopping at a Paris Station but doesn't know which one hence my earlier question.

Would be surprised if it was one of the termini, but the GC traverses interminable swathes of Paris suburb...

 

[KeithMcC]

Took the car sleeper/ski train from Calais Ville to Moutiers about 1990. Double deck car carriers at the back of the train. A rake of fairly ancient couchettes and the disco car!. Car travellers, having presumably paid a lot more than those on travel packages, were put in two rather better Corail couchettes at the front of the train. The route was I think via the Grand Ceinture but I mostly slept through it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Took the car sleeper/ski train from Calais Ville to Moutiers about 1990. Double deck car carriers at the back of the train. A rake of fairly ancient couchettes and the disco car!. Car travellers, having presumably paid a lot more than those on travel packages, were put in two rather better Corail couchettes at the front of the train. The route was I think via the Grand Ceinture but I mostly slept through it.

I have written elsewhere on these pages of my experience on said train, involving a rough ferry crossing (my last), a crate of Stella, the disco coach, an overwhelmingly male travel cohort, SNCF’s rather liberal attitude to cant deficiency, and the predictable results. We went Gd Ceinture, and the old PLM route. I went to ‘couchette’ about an hour south of Paris, and woke up in Dijon...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Corail couchettes IIRC, but the restaurant had gone by the early 90s when I used it from Brive (not Limoges, surely?)

Would be surprised if it was one of the termini, but the GC traverses interminable swathes of Paris suburb...

Yes - Brive - sorry. No recollections of the route around "les banelieu's de Paris"

 

[30907]

Yes - Brive - sorry. No recollections of the route around "les banelieu's de Paris"

The PO (Orleans) and PLM (Lyon) routes are linked across the Seine not far South of Valenton, so accessing the GC from Narbonne-Brive is the easy bit.

Just picked up from another forum this link - p33 on the Flipbook version
https://www.sncf-reseau.com/fr/carte/atlas-reseau-ferre-francais

 

[Cheshire Scot]

somewhere in my memory box I travelled from Gare de Lyon to Calais in a portion off the Napoli Express - some time in the early eighties I think.

Photographic evidence proves a flaw in my memory, my Napoli Express portion ran to Boulogne not Calais. Interesting Gare de Lyon is not listed but the portion was definitely detached on arrival at Gare de Lyon and tripped round the Petite Ceinture to Gare du Nord to attach to the London boat train.

I travelled the Grande Ceinture on the Flandres Riviera in its final years when it ran from Lille only, portions from Calais, Amsterdam and Brussels all by then discontinued, a shadow of it's former self when in high season it often ran as two or even three trains. I'm fairly sure there was a traincrew stop at Valenton after which I went to bed.

A couple of examples from other ports also shown. Interesting the Rheine Express routed via Bonn Beuel, then Koblenz, Wiesbaden & Darmstadt, but missing Frankfurt.

I have no idea how these came to be in my possession ………………………………… .

 

[30907]

A couple of examples from other ports also shown. Interesting the Rheine Express routed via Bonn Beuel, then Koblenz, Wiesbaden & Darmstadt, but missing Frankfurt.

I have no idea how these came to be in my possession ………………………………… .

DB often used the Right Bank route in the Rhine Valley (and still does, though IC services normally only go that way for engineering works); the reversal at Wiesbaden and the call at Darmstadt are interesting, as that particular combination isn't a regular IC one; Frankfurt, though, would have been decidedly off-route (and still is, though trains off the HSL go via Airport now en route to Mannheim).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

DB often used the Right Bank route in the Rhine Valley (and still does, though IC services normally only go that way for engineering works); the reversal at Wiesbaden and the call at Darmstadt are interesting, as that particular combination isn't a regular IC one; Frankfurt, though, would have been decidedly off-route (and still is, though trains off the HSL go via Airport now en route to Mannheim).

My thinking was by taking this less direct route a diversion via Frankfurt might be commercially attractive albeit with a time penalty, on the other hand it perhaps indicates the lack of importance of traffic from the UK and Rotterdam to DB and the routing may have been dictated by keeping out of the way of IC and other more important domestic D Zug.

Edit: I think also in my mind I had Wiesbaden situated even closer to Frankfurt than it actually is - 26 miles Hbf to Hbf according to my 1974 Cooks.

 

[Maltazer]

Boulogne Maritime also had a once weekly in summer charter train for the Italian Tourist Agency CIT, conveying UK passengers who did not want to fly on package holidays with the 'Citalia' holiday company..
This train conveyed sleeping cars only, and I think ran as far as Rome. It was still running in the late 1980's and my (now) wife travelled on it several times to holiday in Stresa, Alassio, Viareggio and Sorrento with transfer by coach from key interchange points to the resorts, from Rome for Sorrento and I'd guess (not the sort of detail she will remember 30 plus years on) somewhere like Allessandria for Alassio and Stresa - the train took the 'direct' route via Modane.
The train ran north from Italy on Friday night and south on the Saturday night meaning a 14 night holiday included one night each way on the train and 12 nights in the resort.


I have just found this link.

Citalia Express, by train and ship to Italy

As a child I traveled on the CIT train most years from 1975-1983 for holidays in various Adriatic resorts (usually Senigallia).

Luggage had to be loaded on the boat train at Victoria, and living in Tonbridge this meant starting the holiday in the wrong direction by heading to London. Six hours after setting off we would be back in Tonbridge again as the boat train thundered through to Dover!

The first couple of years involved changing at Milan onto a domestic service, but after that the train ran through to Rimini, usually via the Simplon tunnel and Domodossola, but occasionally via Modane and Turin.

I remember coaches in the livery of CIWL - one or two restaurant cars, 2 or 3 sleepers and the rest made up of grey FS couchette carriages (as a family of 4, we had the couchette - sleepers compartments had a maximum of 3). My brother and I used to lean out the windows until I realised the occasional spots of water probably weren't rain! Meals were served in two sittings - very civilised affairs with table cloths, and food which I'm always reminded of when I get my pasta recipes just right.

I've tried to find photos of the train of that era to replicate the exact compositions - all I can find are links like the one you posted (which was after I used it, when it had become all sleeper and no couchettes).

Travelling in late-August / early September also meant usually missing the first week of the new school year (never did me any harm, lol!), French rail strikes (one time our train was joined to another due to lack of drivers for an impressive 23 coaches!), sitting at Amiens for ages waiting for a loco change, and the roughest channel crossings ever!

Flying may be quicker (and it wasn't cheaper back then, hence the train), but you just don't get that feeling of having been anywhere!

 

[urpert]

Very much enjoying this thread. I’m a bit too young to have ever experienced long distance services from the Channel ports, though I was pleased to see in the dying days of the LD Lines Boulogne-Dover service the Gare Maritime waiting rooms (with their perfect 50s interiors) had been mothballed. I might have a pic somewhere. Next time I have to drag all the way over to Koeln to change for a train to the rest of the world I can daydream of the days of direct coaches from Oostend!

This is all rather well timed as I’ve just re-read Platform Souls by Nicholas Whittaker (highly recommended if you’ve not come across it).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The first couple of years involved changing at Milan onto a domestic service, but after that the train ran through to Rimini, usually via the Simplon tunnel and Domodossola, but occasionally via Modane and Turin.

I remember coaches in the livery of CIWL - one or two restaurant cars, 2 or 3 sleepers and the rest made up of grey FS couchette carriages (as a family of 4, we had the couchette - sleepers compartments had a maximum of 3). My brother and I used to lean out the windows until I realised the occasional spots of water probably weren't rain! Meals were served in two sittings - very civilised affairs with table cloths, and food which I'm always reminded of when I get my pasta recipes just right.

I fin that very interesting.

Noting it ran direct to Rimini at that time I wonder if it was a portioned train in that era, one portion to the Adriatic and one going down the west side to Rome - or even two separate trains.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Photographic evidence proves a flaw in my memory, my Napoli Express portion ran to Boulogne not Calais. Interesting Gare de Lyon is not listed but the portion was definitely detached on arrival at Gare de Lyon and tripped round the Petite Ceinture to Gare du Nord to attach to the London boat train.

I travelled the Grande Ceinture on the Flandres Riviera in its final years when it ran from Lille only, portions from Calais, Amsterdam and Brussels all by then discontinued, a shadow of it's former self when in high season it often ran as two or even three trains. I'm fairly sure there was a traincrew stop at Valenton after which I went to bed.

A couple of examples from other ports also shown. Interesting the Rheine Express routed via Bonn Beuel, then Koblenz, Wiesbaden & Darmstadt, but missing Frankfurt.

I have no idea how these came to be in my possession ………………………………… .

Interesting attachment there.

 

[Maltazer]

I fin that very interesting.

Noting it ran direct to Rimini at that time I wonder if it was a portioned train in that era, one portion to the Adriatic and one going down the west side to Rome - or even two separate trains.

I think it depended on the time of year. In the busiest periods two separate trains ran, but in early / late season I think the trains were combined.

The Rimini train used to reverse at Milan Centrale, stopping there for an hour-ish, so it's possible there could have been a split there.

I've attached documents from 1981 showing composition and rules for the special trains (in French). I've not got around to completely digesting all the variations. There's even mention of a couple of carriages via Basel and Chiasso too.

 

[52290]

Here's a not very good photo I took of a 141R 2-8-2 heading out of Boulogne Maritime in 1964. The man in front of the train ensured that walking pace was maintained throughout the dock area. He didn't walk it all the way to Paris! The 141R's were not liked on the Northern region and were always dirty in contrast to the pacifics. On the Mediterranean region they were much more respected. They were in green livery and were oil-fired as opposed to their coal-fired sisters in the north.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Here's a not very good photo I took of a 141R 2-8-2 heading out of Boulogne Maritime in 1964. The man in front of the train ensured that walking pace was maintained throughout the dock area. He didn't walk it all the way to Paris! The 141R's were not liked on the Northern region and were always dirty in contrast to the pacifics. On the Mediterranean region they were much more respected. They were in green livery and were oil-fired as opposed to their coal-fired sisters in the north.

Wonderful to see a photo from that era, I have one somewhere of Calais Maritime in 1965, but just can't lay hands on it.

I've attached documents from 1981 showing composition and rules for the special trains (in French). I've not got around to completely digesting all the variations. There's even mention of a couple of carriages via Basel and Chiasso too.

These are great. After a quick glance I need a bit more time to try to understand them a bit more!

 

[Thewanderer]

Would love if anybody had photos of the TAC terminal at Boulogne?

 

[urpert]

The urban exploration brigade have been into Boulogne-Maritime. Much as I remember it though sadly no shots of the lounges (and I can’t find mine either):

Gare Maritime Port de Boulogne - Abandoned and Lost Places

Port de Boulogne was back in the 1980s a major port with two or three million passengers passing through each year. Today it's abandoned.

www.urbex.nl

 

[pitdiver]

As I started this thread I would to thank everybody for their contributions. I have been studying Cooks Continental timetable of 1973 and dreaming that I was travelling on those international expresses. It must have been a great experience to be able to get on a train at one of the Channel ports and not get off until you were in some foreign country. I only wish they still ran as now I could spare the time and afford to travel on some of those routes.
Getting on the Eurostar at ST P isn't the same.