Two delays with one ticket (in same direction), one claim or two?

[Haywain]

A few days ago I made a journey using a return ticket. I broke my outward journey and was delayed by more than 15 minutes at that stage. After an hour or so, I continued my journey and was again delayed by in excess of 15 minutes. My retrun journey was not delayed by a qualifying amount of time. As an aside, I never reached the destination on my ticket because the first delay resulted in a change of plans. Can I claim Delay Repay twice for the two separate delays?

 

[MrJeeves]

I have always put in two claims when I've had experiences like this. Not had an issue so far (but have once had to appeal stating they were two journeys using one ticket).

 

[yorkie]

The rules are not as clear cut as they should be.

Firstly I believe you could claim a partial refund, based on abandoning your journey and returning to your origin, the rules state:

Part F: Your Refund and Compensation Rights
29. Refunds on Tickets Which You Have Chosen Not to Use or Have Been Part-used
29.1 If you purchase any Ticket(s) and then choose not to travel, you may apply for a refund
from the original retailer, unless the terms and conditions of your Ticket(s) state
otherwise. You must do this no more than 28 days after the expiry of the Ticket(s)
unless the terms and conditions of your Ticket state otherwise.
29.2 In such cases, a deduction from your refund in the case of part-used Tickets, will
normally be calculated on the cost of the journey(s) actually made. An administration
charge may also be made, which will not exceed £10 per Ticket; however, if the
administrative charge and/or other deductions exceed the refund amount no refund
will be payable. If a delay or cancellation on any leg of your journey is the reason you
could not complete your journey, you are entitled to a full refund on any Tickets held
for that journey under condition 30.1
29.3 Your refund application will be processed as soon as reasonably practicable, and the
refund paid within one month of receipt of your application.

As you did get the use out of your ticket - in part - to visit a location that was en-route, I believe you could argue that you should be entitled to the difference between the cost of just a ticket to the place you did visit, and the amount you paid.

There is also a strong argument to say that you would further be entitled to delay compensation of the non- refunded amount, assuming 15 mins is a qualifying period for such a delay.

Some people would argue that you could alternatively claim each section of the journey as Delay Repay, although if you didn't actually make use of the ticket, due to the delay, beyond the first destination, it's generally accepted that's not what should happen.

Some people have claimed the full fare can be refunded but I don't think that is the case where the ticket has bee part used to visit a destination short of the final destination of the ticket (if that was correct people could claim full refunds very easily on many occasions!)

Was it all one TOC involved? I would be tempted to put in an email to customer services explaining what happened and hopefully they will provide a reasonable level of compensation.

 

[MrJeeves]

Some people have claimed the full fare can be refunded but I don't think that is the case where the ticket has bee part used to visit a destination short of the final destination of the ticket (if that was correct people could claim full refunds very easily on many occasions!)

I'm in this bucket

If a refund was to be claimed, I think it should be a full refund for abandoned journey.

Your own copy of the NRCoT above even says:

If a delay or cancellation on any leg of your journey is the reason you could not complete your journey, you are entitled to a full refund on any Tickets held for that journey under condition 30.1

 

[yorkie]

I'm in this bucket

If a refund was to be claimed, I think it should be a full refund for abandoned journey.

Your own copy of the NRCoT above even says:

But does that override the part relating to tickets which are part-used? I think it warrants a thread of it's own, so I will create one now...

Edit:

Abandoning journey when making partial use of the ticket

See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/two-delays-with-one-ticket-in-same-direction-one-claim-or-two.261482/ However, this is far from the first time this has cropped up! A passenger buys a ticket to an ultimate destination, but only travels so far, and visits an alternative place, and at...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Adam Williams]

As you did get the use out of your ticket - in part - to visit a location that was en-route, I believe you could argue that you should be entitled to the difference between the cost of just a ticket to the place you did visit, and the amount you paid.

I thought this bit of the NRCoT was mostly designed for the case where only half of a return-ticket was used (with refund calculated on the difference to the equivalent single), rather than on the basis of where the passenger travelled to in relation to the distance their ticket actually entitled them to travel.

You could definitely make a case along the lines of what you are suggesting as it's ambiguous (there's a common theme here with this document!), but I don't know how persuasive it would be outside of e.g. a small claims case.

 

[yorkie]

I thought this bit of the NRCoT was mostly designed for the case where only half of a return-ticket was used (with refund calculated on the difference to the equivalent single)....

Just a slight correction: if one half was used, and the other not, then it would be half the cost of the return which would be refunded (not just the difference to the equivalent single, which could be a lot less).

 

[Adam Williams]

Just a slight correction: if one half was used, and the other not, then it would be half the cost of the return which would be refunded (not just the difference to the equivalent single, which could be a lot less).

For cases of disruption, yes, agreed.

 

[yorkie]

I made a new thread at:

Abandoning journey when making partial use of the ticket

See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/two-delays-with-one-ticket-in-same-direction-one-claim-or-two.261482/ However, this is far from the first time this has cropped up! A passenger buys a ticket to an ultimate destination, but only travels so far, and visits an alternative place, and at...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for the feedback. I have now looked into what DR would entitle me too, and the alternative fares, and as the difference in price between what I paid and what I used is greater than the Delay Repay, I think I will go down the refund route.

For the record, the ticket was from station A to station D. The train from a to B was 19 minutes late at B, where I broke the journey due to the delay rendering continuing to D unviable. I later travelled from B to C and that train was also 19 minutes late. I later returned from C to A, arriving at A on time. The train operator was Northern.

 

[redreni]

Some people have claimed the full fare can be refunded but I don't think that is the case where the ticket has bee part used to visit a destination short of the final destination of the ticket (if that was correct people could claim full refunds very easily on many occasions!)

That makes sense in circumstances like those described by the OP.

In the case of more serious delays there is always PRO, of course, which sets out the (in my opinion) very sound principle that where a passenger abandons their journey short of their destination and goes back to their starting point, they should be entitled to a full refund if the journey they did make no longer served any purpose in relation to their original travel plans. I would suggest whether a person returns to their point of origin from the point where they stopped short straight away - or at the earliest opportunity at least - may be relevant in judging this if there is any doubt?