Two people rescued from River Clyde by train

[miklcct]

Isn't there a reason called "lineside emergency"?

 

[tspaul26]

Unless things have changed significantly since I studied law (admittedly a few years ago now) my understanding is that, absent any specific duty owed by one individual to another, there is indeed no general obligation to assist, under either tort or criminal law. The gruesome example I remember being trotted out was that you could observe a baby drowning in a puddle and, quite, legally, walk on by. That the default UK position and contrasts with the law in many European countries, for example.

Things get more complicated if you have a specific duty of care, for example to a child in your care, or have assumed one, for example stepping in to assist someone who has been injured. This is where the concern for “good Samaritans” comes in.

The bon mot, to use the drowning child example, is that there is no liability for an omission to assist unless it’s your child, your pond or you’re the life guard.

The key point is that blanket statements that there is or isn’t a duty or protection or liability are misleading and, potentially, dangerous.

 

[Busaholic]

The way that there are grumbles and even, potentially, an argument as a result of resolving a life or death situation shows just how bonkers the whole system is. Why not close it all down and leave bean-counters and lawyers to argue over imaginary situations?

Couldn't agree more. The fact it's provoked so much debate on here is indicative of everything that's wrong with the country (meaning the UK as a whole) in 2022, and why the inconsequential 'beauty parade' to choose another totally useless person to nominally front the charade won't achieve anything of substance.

 

[yorkie]

Who says anyone was arguing?

Sounds to me this was a case of the incident happened, it has to be attributed somewhere; standard procedure is NR gets the bill, no arguing, case closed.

If anyone has any alternative proposals, feel free to propose them (in the speculative section).

 

[Falcon1200]

Isn't there a reason called "lineside emergency"?

There are many, many Delay Codes, but every incident has to be attributed to a Responsible Manager, either a Train or Freight Operator, or Network Rail, even if the cause was reasonably beyond the railway's control, as in this case.

 

[scotraildriver]

One of the people from the boat was already on the line and had been spotted by the signaller on the CCTV at Cardross level crossing hence why the train stopped. The driver didn't do any "rescuing" or make decisions to stop his train and merely transported one of the casualties to Cardross station due to access issues. The delay is simply trespass as the person was on the line.

 

[Falcon1200]

One of the people from the boat was already on the line and had been spotted by the signaller on the CCTV at Cardross level crossing hence why the train stopped. The driver didn't do any "rescuing" or make decisions to stop his train and merely transported one of the casualties to Cardross station due to access issues. The delay is simply trespass as the person was on the line.

Thanks, that clarifies things and should end any debate about the delay attribution !

 

[Javelin_55]

I have long believed that there should be a third category of delay figures for those beyond the industry's control, to give a truer picture of how and why performance has suffered.

External 'V' codes exist precisely to account for incidents beyond the operator's control: ill passengers, disorder, vandalism, fare evasion etc. By and large, external delays are given to the TOC if they occur on board a train, and NR if not.

What delay attribution is really good for here is finding out how well the ensuing disruption was handled. If the agreed mitigation plan wasn't followed or doesn't work in practice, that's something operators need to know and take responsibility for. If these kinds of incidents just get written off by the industry, no-one learns from anything that happened and performance will not improve the next time it occurs.

 

[TUC]

The way that there are grumbles and even, potentially, an argument as a result of resolving a life or death situation shows just how bonkers the whole system is. Why not close it all down and leave bean-counters and lawyers to argue over imaginary situations?

I don't think in reality Network Rail or TOCs would have an issue with this kind of situation. It's an example of rail enthusiasts inventing a problem.