Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[Paul_10]

Was on 4040 for the first time in quite a while today, and it was such a difference being on a train that didn't have a constant screeching rubber noise.

I do honestly think when the units came back from refurbishment, on some of them, the rubber fitted to connect the articulation centre is just simply to thick so it will rub against the white surface causing black marks and the horrendous as a result. I think the majority of units don't have this problem anymore though.

To note, I was on 4045 yesterday and it must of been freshly clean as it was very clean and airy and the floor and all the surfaces looked very clean, just ashame with the current weather it probably won't stay like that for very long.

If there was no peak services running at all today then that surely means more fines for DB from Nexus? I bet they can't wait for it to end really but as people say, it won't mean everything will be going all rosy and smooth because more likely than not, this won't be the case.

 

[ModernRailways]

I think Nexus should look into investing in a similar on train announcement system to the LUL. Things such as automated real time travel information for commuters who could then plan their journey more efficiently. Another element I was impressed with is the announcement regarding which side the doors will open which would be a fantastic area of success for visitors. Hopefully this will be integrated on the specification for our downgraded rolling stock.

I was recently in the good ol' US of A. And whilst I was in Chicago, there system very much reminded me of the Metro. The frequency, and the general feel of the system felt very much like Metro. I'd say if Metro needed a system to look at for pointers and tips etc. the L would be a good candidate. Platform display boards were similar to that of Haymarket's. However, they had actual useful information on them. The top half displayed 2 trains, then rotated and showed the next 2 trains after. And the bottom half displayed information such as weather, CTA disruptions, News, and the current time. Every so often, it would change to a full screen message, that would either be disruption information, or CTA adverts (pickpockets, CTA App etc).

 

[142094]

4083 out this morning with 4001.

 

[Tramfan]

Do you happen to know if 4083 managed to see service the other week as well? I saw it leaving the depot with 4040 showing St James on the destination display, but it returned about 40 mins later

 

[142094]

Not sure about last week as I didn't see it out but it was on one of the Coast trains yesterday morning for a run out until it was swapped in a planned replacement with another set after about 3 hours. Apparently the depot are still running tests to see if can go into service for longer journeys, and indeed it was sitting on 6 road this afternoon inside the shed.

 

[Tramfan]

4083 had 171 on the TRB display the day I saw which is why I wondered if the fact it was displaying St James was an error. I guess it could have been a non-timetabled extra as part of the tests you mention, though it definitely didn't make it to St James that day (Thu 12th) as it returned to depot about 40 mins after it left.

Noticed 4001 was back with 4040 on 152 yesterday afternoon as well.

 

[142094]

What day did you see it? 17x running numbers are normally used for football extras or special events (e.g. today 171 was being used as a hot spare for the rugby).

 

[danpick]

What day did you see it? 17x running numbers are normally used for football extras or special events (e.g. today 171 was being used as a hot spare for the rugby).

Did 171 ever do a run?

 

[Tramfan]

What day did you see it? 17x running numbers are normally used for football extras or special events (e.g. today 171 was being used as a hot spare for the rugby).

It was Thursday 12th June, left depot (east end) about 5pm, back by 5.45pm

 

[ModernRailways]

4083 and 4001 were out on an Airport service this evening.

I also saw them on Thursday myself at around 4:15 on a peak service, but that could have been 4040.

 

[Paul_10]

Good too see 4083 finally being returned to service, if albeit rather slowly. Any news regarding 4077?

 

[danpick]

4083 and 4001 were out on an Airport service this evening.

I also saw them on Thursday myself at around 4:15 on a peak service, but that could have been 4040.

Guttted I didn't see 4083 yesterday.

 

[142094]

Did 171 ever do a run?

Possibly only a Pelaw to South Gosforth yesterday although I had finished by that point so can't be 100% sure. There is another hot spare working today.

It was Thursday 12th June, left depot (east end) about 5pm, back by 5.45pm

Sounds like a short working to Monkseaton and back. Not enough time to get to St James and back even if it ran empty.

4077 still under investigation.

Training trains 191 to 194 were out this morning for driver training.

 

[danpick]

4001 & 4040 are on 109 having replaced a refurbished set.

 

[ModernRailways]

Does anyone have any news on the current door situation? The last I heard was a car was in service with a possible fix but they will need to wait a couple of weeks before they can confirm it's worked and fixed the issue and only then will they apply it fleetwide.

I've noticed a couple of units have the unrefurbished door style (orange exterior, silver interior with grey strip) but with the door buttons changed to the refurbished style.

With the current door situation, is other essential maintenance being done to the cars out of action? Would be pretty wasteful to have them just sitting in the depot with nothing really being done to them when they could be getting work done to help their reliability once they get back in service.

 

[142094]

No futher news on the door situation apart from what I've posted, however what I do know is that other general maintenance still continues which includes fixing daily failures and also all other planned maintenance exams.

 

[HA25322]

4001 & 4040 are on 109 having replaced a refurbished set.

What is 109 please? Is it a route code? And if so where could I find them please? I cannot find them anywhere? And is there any diagrams? I have never done the system so I would be grateful for any gen for example where is the best place to bash them?

Many thanks

 

[MetroCar4058]

I was on 4001 earlier and by goodness she is in a state, the compressor is deafening, half of the lights are out and the doors were refusing to lock. I feel as if the general maintenance of the units reflects the fact that DBs contract has been terminate.
Also rather annoyed at the driver of 106 who looked at me and decided to drive off. To be fair he had just armed the doors and was 7 minutes late however it takes little to be kind and most metro drivers follow this etic.

 

[ModernRailways]

What is 109 please? Is it a route code? And if so where could I find them please? I cannot find them anywhere? And is there any diagrams? I have never done the system so I would be grateful for any gen for example where is the best place to bash them?

Many thanks

109 is a service number. 109 is a service that operates from Airport to South Hylton. 129 is a service number for a service that operates St James to South Shields.

I have a copy of the WTT myself, but I'm unsure if it has identifying info in so I'm not going to be willing to share. However, you might be able to find them through Google, otherwise an email to Metro might see them sent to you, that may be unlikely though.

Most diagrams are in the public domain in the normal timetable. Obviously, not including special extra services for events, or maintenance services etc.

I was on 4001 earlier and by goodness she is in a state, the compressor is deafening, half of the lights are out and the doors were refusing to lock. I feel as if the general maintenance of the units reflects the fact that DBs contract has been terminate.
Also rather annoyed at the driver who looked at me and decided to drive off. To be fair he had just armed the doors and was 7 minutes late however it takes little to be kind and most metro drivers follow this etic.

4001 is in the state it is because it's still being pushed into service. It quite simply shouldn't be in service. It is well past it's life expectancy and a lot of the issues I've noticed will take time as they will like require parts shipped in, and not something they just have spare. 4001 should have been removed from pax service last year, but because of the ongoing issues with the refurbished units it's obviously needed out on the system to try and continue to provide as much service as Metro can.

DB haven't given up, and they are still trying their best with what they have. From what I've gathered myself, Nexus are starting to get more involved with Metro/DB TW and they are supposedly working together to try and get the best service. I must admit the last month I'd say for the most part service has started getting a little better (minus the fact Pelaw shorts are disrupted), there are still major issues. Sticky doors, seem to be my biggest issue lately (but at least the trains are running!). In all honesty though, since the start of 2016 I've probably been delayed by more than 10 minutes on two occasions, and maybe once a fortnight I've just been delayed by 5-10 minutes. Yes, delays are a big issue but I really feel a lot of the issues are exacerbated because of the social media presence. I also really get wound up by the people who complain about a train being withdrawn and saying they're now going to be late because they're going to be 10 minutes late. That's their problem, they should be leaving enough time anyway, and if 10 minutes is going to make you late then you should be getting an earlier train.

I understand your frustration with that, but if they were 7 down already, then you would have had an at most wait of 10 minutes (should be 5/6 mins if train following is on time).

 

[HA25322]

I have asked on the Freedom of information website about the WTT as I cannot find anything else on Google for this year at least. There is information on there but that goes back to 2014 so not sure if that is the most up to date information. We shall wait and see what they come back with (if anything).
So onto the other part of the question and can anyone state the best place to bash them to get as many in the book as possible please?
Regards

 

[HA25322]

I have asked on the Freedom of information website about the WTT as I cannot find anything else on Google for this year at least. There is information on there but that goes back to 2014 so not sure if that is the most up to date information. We shall wait and see what they come back with (if anything).
So onto the other part of the question and can anyone state the best place to bash them to get as many in the book as possible please?
Regards

Having done a little bit of research I believe that you can bash between South Gosforth and Pelaw which covers the yellow and green lines. I have also found that the timetables on the Nexus site are also from 2014 so I believe that the information shown on the freedom of info site is also as up to date as the timetable. I have collated this information and so you can find it attached. Hope this is ok?

 

[ModernRailways]

If you just want to bash and get as many metrocars off your list, then Pelaw to South Gosforth will be your best chance, during the peaks is also likely the best time (will obviously be busy though). However, we currently do have a number of units out of action due to an issue with doors emergency releases.


The WTT 'HA25322' attached is probably the most recent Nexus will send you.

 

[HA25322]

If you just want to bash and get as many metrocars off your list, then Pelaw to South Gosforth will be your best chance, during the peaks is also likely the best time (will obviously be busy though). However, we currently do have a number of units out of action due to an issue with doors emergency releases.


The WTT 'HA25322' attached is probably the most recent Nexus will send you.

Excellent and thanks for that. It is exactly the info I was after about bashing the units. I have somehow had about 16 of them back in the day including 4001 which is good. However would always like to have more rides on them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

DB haven't given up, and they are still trying their best with what they have.

Hmm. The service has got noticeably worse since the contract was pulled from them. Although, of course, DB Regio's best has been far short of the required standard for at least the last three years, which is why they've had the contract pulled from them.

I must admit the last month I'd say for the most part service has started getting a little better (minus the fact Pelaw shorts are disrupted)

You are obviously not travelling at peak time. Yesterday evening was particularly poor, with all the peak extras binned and huge gaps between trains (there was a 25 minute wait for the next Airport when I was at Haymarket yesterday). The peak extras missing mean the main service was delayed and was leaving people behind at Haymarket and Jesmond. It's quite simply not good enough.

 

[glbotu]

Hmm. The service has got noticeably worse since the contract was pulled from them. Although, of course, DB Regio's best has been far short of the required standard for at least the last three years, which is why they've had the contract pulled from them.



You are obviously not travelling at peak time. Yesterday evening was particularly poor, with all the peak extras binned and huge gaps between trains (there was a 25 minute wait for the next Airport when I was at Haymarket yesterday). The peak extras missing mean the main service was delayed and was leaving people behind at Haymarket and Jesmond. It's quite simply not good enough.

I mean, it's kind of a perfect storm at the moment. They just don't seem to be able to get the trains running. As someone who does travel at peak time, it's generally awful trying to get on a train at Central Station in the morning, while I've had situations of it being quicker to go the "wrong" way round from Northumberland Park to the city centre in the evening, because they seem to kill the coast service first, before the Airport/Regent Centres.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've had situations of it being quicker to go the "wrong" way round from Northumberland Park to the city centre in the evening, because they seem to kill the coast service first, before the Airport/Regent Centres.

It's not that they bin the Coast service first, to be fair to them. The issue seems to be that the Monkseaton shorts get binned, so the Coast trains get seriously overcrowded- my Coast train back to Northumberland Park was leaving people behind at Haymarket and Jesmond just because the Coast train three minutes before it was canned. This then causes havoc everywhere else, it loses more and more time and then you get issues on the single track bits out to South Shields.

The issue seems to be that DB Regio have an attitude of "meh, whatever" when the Monkseaton shorts get canned- until about two weeks ago they were announcing "good service" even with the shorts canned- without either understanding or caring that the Coast circle in the peaks can't cope without them.

 

[ModernRailways]

Hmm. The service has got noticeably worse since the contract was pulled from them. Although, of course, DB Regio's best has been far short of the required standard for at least the last three years, which is why they've had the contract pulled from them.



You are obviously not travelling at peak time. Yesterday evening was particularly poor, with all the peak extras binned and huge gaps between trains (there was a 25 minute wait for the next Airport when I was at Haymarket yesterday). The peak extras missing mean the main service was delayed and was leaving people behind at Haymarket and Jesmond. It's quite simply not good enough.

I completely agree, it has gone downhill. But, I'm still of the opinion that it's down to the trains being put under so much pressure when they're past their expected life.

I actually do travel during the peak, and it's never been too bad. However, I have noticed trains towards The Coast via Gosforth are considerably busier. Maybe, I'm travelling just 30 minutes before the crush loaded trains, or whether I've just hit incredibly lucky but I've never seen people get left behind (other than match days). That's just from what I see whilst I'm travelling and I'm on the network.

It's not that they bin the Coast service first, to be fair to them. The issue seems to be that the Monkseaton shorts get binned, so the Coast trains get seriously overcrowded- my Coast train back to Northumberland Park was leaving people behind at Haymarket and Jesmond just because the Coast train three minutes before it was canned. This then causes havoc everywhere else, it loses more and more time and then you get issues on the single track bits out to South Shields.

The issue seems to be that DB Regio have an attitude of "meh, whatever" when the Monkseaton shorts get canned- until about two weeks ago they were announcing "good service" even with the shorts canned- without either understanding or caring that the Coast circle in the peaks can't cope without them.

Two weeks ago though they only lost 3 or 4 peak extras and from what I've been told they were the least used peak extras anyway so wouldn't have impacted as many people. Now they're losing considerable amounts, almost to the point where there are no evident additional peaks.

What I think they do need to do is start publishing times where people should seriously avoid, so say you usually get 17:25 from Haymarket to Tynemouth, Metro might publish information saying that trains between 17:15 and 17:50 are incredibly busy and to try and travel at other times than that. That would go a long way with spreading the numbers of people travelling as they might stay at work an extra hour, or go grab a coffee or go walk around the shops or whatever else people do. Obviously, that's a short term solution and people will kick off and tell Metro they should just fix the problem but it will make some people who are flexible change their travel pattern.

 

[MetroCar4058]

My question is why are more than 15 unused sets not available to roll out during peak? This has been happening for a few weeks now and that alone suggest to me that the maintenance team isn't pulling their weight. As far as I'm concerned the 4 unrefurbished units are perfectly fine for service (excluding the DDA Stuff.) I just cannot comprehend how poor some of the units are, sticky doors, air vents hanging off, open flappy things over the seats, more rattling than a dogs toy, flats and awful traction equipment on many units.

Is the lack of stock linked to the door issue? As this was when this began (announcements regarding cancellations anyhow). My personal opinion as I have said many times is that the issue is DB and not the stock, yes it's old, plays a role in the issues and the parts are obsolete, but DB knew that and should have been prepared to keep the fleet going and met the contract requirements instead of happily hanging around at 79% punctuality. But that isn't too bad considering the cancelled peak services?

 

[ModernRailways]

My question is why are more than 15 unused sets not available to roll out during peak? This has been happening for a few weeks now and that alone suggest to me that the maintenance team isn't pulling their weight. As far as I'm concerned the 4 unrefurbished units are perfectly fine for service (excluding the DDA Stuff.) I just cannot comprehend how poor some of the units are, sticky doors, air vents hanging off, open flappy things over the seats, more rattling than a dogs toy, flats and awful traction equipment on many units.

Is the lack of stock linked to the door issue? As this was when this began (announcements regarding cancellations anyhow). My personal opinion as I have said many times is that the issue is DB and not the stock, yes it's old, plays a role in the issues and the parts are obsolete, but DB knew that and should have been prepared to keep the fleet going and met the contract requirements instead of happily hanging around at 79% punctuality. But that isn't too bad considering the cancelled peak services?

The lack of stock is the door issue. And yes, the depot team most certainly are pulling their weight. Without them we likely wouldn't have much of a service at all. The issues you describe seem very much just like the age of the trains, plus how they've been treated by the public.

I highly doubt DB thought that at this stage they'd be having this many issues. A lot of which is simply down to the general wear and tear, I imagine DB thought they would have been getting a new fleet. From what I've overheard, and heard in the rumour mill is that the next company to take over (around 2020) should have a new fleet in place, or deliveries will commence very soon from the start of contract.

To me, That will significantly help out the service, but I personally don't feel like that will be enough. There will be issues elsewhere on the system that will start cropping up and causing chaos. Unless, with new trains comes a major investment elsewhere in the system too, however I imagine Nexus are pushing for new trains and anything extra is considered a bonus more than anything.

 

[Paul_10]

I'm not in the region at the moment so i'm just wondering, is this door/emergency handle issue affecting all the units or just some? So does that mean the same cars are out on the system all day every day at the moment? Its a strange and sad situation really, if its not one thing, its another.

It would seem unlikely this issue would have anything to do with the refurbishment as surely this problem would of been noticed much earlier so I'm wondering if something was added to the door mechanisms by the staff at Gosforth but then it seems to of caused a problem to one unit and then after checking them all, they all got the same issue thus the situation we find ourselves in?

Also regarding the subject of 4001, I'm sure its more than fit enough for service, a lot of the issues seems to be minor issues which can be fixed and the doors on the prototypes are always vulnable to breaking it seems. Would like too see 4001 and the other 3 unrefurbished units to be repainted and perhaps given some sort of refresh but I highly doubt that will happen though.