• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

Volvictof

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2019
Messages
186
Location
Newcastle
It does seem to be a Tyne & Wear thing, and I don’t fully understand it as Newcastle itself is always pretty friendly and outgoing as far as most things go.

No train driver can really moan about being in a picture (very close range excepted) as people have been taking photos of trains since steam days, so expecting not to be photographed is a bit like going swimming and expecting not to get wet. It comes with the job, and no driver should have taken on the role without knowing that.
Most don’t mind, but the ones that do, it’s more down to bad experiences. A few drivers have had issues with photographers who have been blocking the view in the dispatch mirror etc, and when asked to move been met with ”I can
stand where I want”. Thats usually when they’ve gotten fed up and called into security to have them moved.
These incidents are few and far between and obviously not indicative of all enthusiasts, but they still leave a bad taste in the mouth. It goes from a benign thing to someone making your job harder.

The decision not to refurbish 40 and 83 had nothing to do with the two incidents you mention. It was planned from early on in the refurbishment program that only 86 units would be refurbished - 01 and 02 were always going to be excluded but the other two weren’t determined until late on.

83 did come out of the Kingston Park accident in a rather poor state, worse than the rear unit of the formation (74), but it had a full repair before returning to service so no lasting damage remains to the unit. The warping that appears in some of the accident photos is likely just a trick of the light.

40 and 90 came out of the Airport flooding as bad as each other.

As far as operations go the 4 unrefurbished units have also had a lot of the modifications that the Wabtec units have. The cabs were updated at the same time as the accessibility mods were done, not sure about the water issue, but certainly the 4 units now have the window facing the front passenger seat blanked off as per the Wabtec units. Automated announcements came before the Wabtec refit, around 2010, so the 4 unrefurbished units were fitted with them. The two big differences between those and the Wabtec units were the door tone - one button for the warning tone and another one to actually shut the doors; and the wiring - the Wabtec units were completely rewired.

Both the unrefurbished and Wabtec units retain the button for the old doors closing recording and it can still be played. It’s rare to hear but does occasionally happen.
That must just be a lingering myth amongst drivers then but I suppose it could just be a coincidence.

With regards to the automated announcements though the un refurbished sets didn't have them until very recently, I was trained to make announcements via the PA, (im not saying they weren’t fitted with them originally in 2010 but if they were, they certainly haven’t worked for a few years)

There deffo aren’t any remaining door tones buttons (except for maybe on 4002, but this doesn’t do anything, and 4001 which hasn’t been updated but isn’t in service) and the recordings can’t be played. (Bar on 01) At least not by a driver, maybe the depot workers have some way of setting them off, I’m not sure.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
Today is the last day for what's left of the old Gosforth depot. From Saturday, all maintenance will be done in the new Stadler building at Gosforth and some light maintenance at Howdon.

In other news, 4047 has joined 4055 and 4062 at the Nexus Learning Centre in South Shields. Not sure if this move is temporary or permanent.

With regards to the automated announcers though the up refurbished sets didn't have them until very recently, I was trained to make announcements via the PA, (im not saying they weren’t fitted with them originally in 2010 but if they were, they certainly haven’t worked for a few years)

There deffo aren’t any remaining door tones buttons (except for maybe on 4002, but this doesn’t do anything) and the recordings can’t be played. At least not by a driver, maybe the depot workers have some way of setting them of, I’m not sure.
They were definitely fitted around 2010 with the rest of the fleet, and (sometimes) continued to work post 2015 on at least 40 and 83. Could be come to think of it that they weren't changed from the female announcer to the male announcer until recently. That said though, 73 still doesn't have the male announcer today and that still plays the female announcer!

Definitely heard the old recordings occasionally, including on Wabtec refurb sets, until a couple of years ago. Hadn't realised the buttons had now been removed.
 

Tramfan

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2011
Messages
380
Location
.
In other news, 4047 has joined 4055 and 4062 at the Nexus Learning Centre in South Shields. Not sure if this move is temporary or permanent.
Will be temporary, there's been a second set down there for a long time now, the get rotated every few weeks or so.
 

ExRes

Established Member
Joined
16 Dec 2012
Messages
5,967
Location
Back in Sussex
27th is the date I’ve heard for arrival of 555003. Not sure if that’s arrival on Metro infrastructure or just arrival in the UK.

Also seen reported that 555002 has been graffitied at Arth-Goldau.

Nothing carved in stone of course, schedules on Rail Record for Tuesday night 2341 6Q55 Db Cargo Fan A & B Sdgs to Belmont Down Yd and Thursday 0139 6Q56 to Tyne SS
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
Nothing carved in stone of course, schedules on Rail Record for Tuesday night 2341 6Q55 Db Cargo Fan A & B Sdgs to Belmont Down Yd and Thursday 0139 6Q56 to Tyne SS
These are the schedules on RTT:

No obvious path to Wembley from Dollands Moor. What’s the movement plan to get it from Tyne Yard to Gosforth?

To make those paths it’s presumably already left Switzerland.
 

ExRes

Established Member
Joined
16 Dec 2012
Messages
5,967
Location
Back in Sussex
These are the schedules on RTT:

No obvious path to Wembley from Dollands Moor. What’s the movement plan to get it from Tyne Yard to Gosforth?

To make those paths it’s presumably already left Switzerland.

Sorry but I don't know the area, there is a Friday 0002 6Q57 Tyne SS to Pelaw Goods Loop showing, is that anything to do with Gosforth?
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
Sorry but I don't know the area, there is a Friday 0002 6Q57 Tyne SS to Pelaw Goods Loop showing, is that anything to do with Gosforth?
Yes that's probably linked. A path to Pelaw would suggest the plan is for RailAdventure to take the unit to Pelaw (most likely venturing onto the line towards Jarrow), and for either the Nexus Battery locos or one of the existing Metrocars to collect it from there for movement to Gosforth. Presumably a coupling adapter is ready for use, as the Stadler units have different couplers from the existing Nexus fleet and the barrier wagons used for the rest of the journey will be out of gauge for the tunnels through Newcastle City Centre.
 

Tramfan

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2011
Messages
380
Location
.
I've seen a picture online somewhere of 4075 with what looks like the new type coupler (or new coupler adapter) fitted at one end, so presumably this will be used to take the first 555 back to Gosforth Depot
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
I've seen a picture online somewhere of 4075 with what looks like the new type coupler (or new coupler adapter) fitted at one end, so presumably this will be used to take the first 555 back to Gosforth Depot
Just seen it in this Chronicle article https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...ery/metro-gosforth-stadler-depot-new-26023349

No electrical connector on the coupler so presumably 4075 is now withdrawn from passenger service, unless the other end retains a BSI coupler?
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
765
Looks like it's the B end which has got the coupler on so I would imagine you could be right that's its permenantly withdrawn from service and it's future use will be picking up all 46 of the new metrocars. Will be an interesting sight seeing the old and the new coupled up together and onto the system.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,648
Location
First Class
Is a single Metrocar capable of reliably hauling a new 555? I’ve no doubt it will get it moving, but these units aren’t exactly known for having great traction and are also rather worn out, so could transporting a 5 car EMU prove to be a bit of a challenge? (I’m sure somebody has thought about this, but I’m interested!).
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
The only path from Dollands Moor to Wembley I’ve been able to find in the last week that’s actually ran is this on the 18th:
Does anyone know if this was 555003? If it wasn’t then it’s probably a safe assumption that the delivery is off, unless it’s moved to Wembley in a path not on RTT.
 

gka472l

Member
Joined
29 Apr 2016
Messages
433
The only path from Dollands Moor to Wembley I’ve been able to find in the last week that’s actually ran is this on the 18th:
Does anyone know if this was 555003? If it wasn’t then it’s probably a safe assumption that the delivery is off, unless it’s moved to Wembley in a path not on RTT.
That was Merseyrail 777140

HTH
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
That was Merseyrail 777140

HTH
Thanks. In that case there doesn't seem to be a path in for 555003 to have got to Wembley from the tunnel. If it isn't already at Wembley it's probably a safe assumption that this week's delivery is off.
 

adam_haddad40

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2022
Messages
21
Location
Northumberland
Thanks. In that case there doesn't seem to be a path in for 555003 to have got to Wembley from the tunnel. If it isn't already at Wembley it's probably a safe assumption that this week's delivery is off.
I've heard a few rumours 555003 was damaged on the continent so is going back to Stadler for repair. Can anyone confirm??!
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
I've heard a few rumours 555003 was damaged on the continent so is going back to Stadler for repair. Can anyone confirm??!
555002 was the unit vandalised on the continent and has already been repaired, done on site at Arth-Goldau. Heard nothing to suggest any issues with 555003.

Update: 555003 hasn’t arrived at the tunnel. The consist encountered brake issues somewhere en route from St Margrethen to Frethun. This week’s delivery is off.
 
Last edited:

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
765
Disappointing and with these mounting delays you do feel it won't be until 2024 at least until passenger's board these new trains.

And peak trains being cancelled is becoming more common now, these trains are desperately needed by the look of things. How long will it be until we see cuts in the daily service because of unreliability.

I'm guessing though in a post covid world, the peak services are not needed as much as they are used too but its not ideal for sure.
 

hacman

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2011
Messages
364
Just seen it in this Chronicle article https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...ery/metro-gosforth-stadler-depot-new-26023349

No electrical connector on the coupler so presumably 4075 is now withdrawn from passenger service, unless the other end retains a BSI coupler?

Looks like it's the B end which has got the coupler on so I would imagine you could be right that's its permenantly withdrawn from service and it's future use will be picking up all 46 of the new metrocars. Will be an interesting sight seeing the old and the new coupled up together and onto the system.

The fitting of this coupler doesn't necessarily preclude that unit being used in passenger service again - the adapter can very likely be removed and fitted to another unit if required.

Couplers are removed / replaced from units somewhat regularly as maintenance dictates.

The old unit with that rounded coupler is a rather strange sight though!
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
The fitting of this coupler doesn't necessarily preclude that unit being used in passenger service again - the adapter can very likely be removed and fitted to another unit if required.

Couplers are removed / replaced from units somewhat regularly as maintenance dictates.

The old unit with that rounded coupler is a rather strange sight though!
Looking more closely at the coupler it looks like it's an adapter attached to the BSI coupler. So yes, presumably easy enough to remove and put on another unit.

I hope they've got a number of these adapters in store, they're going to need them for service recovery during the fleet switchover period!
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,513
I was told that 80 did drive strangely due to the warped chassis from the crash, although I can’t say I’ve ever noticed.
Off-topic, but I have read that 67002 (Lawrence Hill crash) is similarly pranged to this day.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
The fleet situation is dire today. Not only are all the peak shorts cancelled (pre-planned connected to Gosforth depot rebuild), but a significant chunk of the core Yellow and Green line service is missing too with Nexus citing a fleet shortage. Worst I’ve ever known it for fleet availability. The 555s couldn’t come soon enough.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
765
The fleet situation is dire today. Not only are all the peak shorts cancelled (pre-planned connected to Gosforth depot rebuild), but a significant chunk of the core Yellow and Green line service is missing too with Nexus citing a fleet shortage. Worst I’ve ever known it for fleet availability. The 555s couldn’t come soon enough.

I'm up in the region next week so will sample just how bad it is.

For me though, ever since privatisation(DB Regio) the system has been a shambles. Some of the decisions DB made was down too cost like half hearted station upgrades, train refurbishment not particularly impressive(same seats, poor interior lighting), 4 units not even receiving a full refurb, fitting of the computer system in A cabs only which no doubt does not help with reliability and of course staff morale at times you hear was very low. Yet since they got stripped of the contract, the situation is even worse and you can perhaps partly blame DB for its decisions even now like the continuous use of A cabs only in passenger service because when the trains got refurbished, they were the only cabs that got a full refubishment and B cabs can't be used in passenger service. The consequence of that of course is what we perhaps seeing now, unreliability, fleet shortages which are so bad now its starting to affect the core service. Of course in the so called good old days, if one cab was faulty and it was only a minor fault you could swop it around, you could be able to run single car units but can't do that anymore so we are stuck in this farce because a private company made a decision saving on money which is having consequences down the line.

I don't know on the exact numbers but there is 89 metrocars which could in theory be used in service and yet guessing on the diagrams, I'm assuming less than 40 metrocars are in service a day at the moment. Considering the number used to be 78 at the peak times then it's shocking really.

And the new trains are the magic solution and all will be solved. I have my doubts especially during the transition period.
 

Sbahn4

Member
Joined
24 Dec 2019
Messages
33
Location
Yorkshire
Most of the members of this forum would never contemplate spray painting art work on trains or lineside structures. Sadly a large number of our fellow citizens do and the art of some of it is very good. Much isn't. The climbing ability of many who do this is also impressive. Misguided and often criminal damage but almost legitimised by the way Banksy and others get praised. Make a Google search for 'graffiti paint' and there are very many people making a lot of money out of graffiti.
graffiti was around long long before banksy appeared!
 

themiller

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2011
Messages
1,072
Location
Cumbria, UK
Yes but it is more prolific now. Is that because vandals like Banksy glamourise it.?
I think that its more to do with getting your 'tag' seen by more people. Allied to that is that this damage isn't removed/covered quickly so making the effort on the part of the sprayers worthwhile in their minds. I lived near a small wayside station where one of the waiting shelters was covered inside by graffiti. It was a proper eyesore so I got a tin of paint and a brush and painted over it. A week later graffiti started to appear again so off I went with my tin of paint and brush and covered it. After a month of this, no more graffiti appeared. If the graffiti is removed quickly, it seems that the vandals give up because it's wasting their time and effort.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
Units up to at least 555006 are now complete. Still no word on a rescheduled delivery for 555003, if indeed that’ll still be the first to arrive after it’s issues last time.
 

adam_haddad40

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2022
Messages
21
Location
Northumberland
Nexus is advertising the rush hour Monkseaton trains are now cancelled. Possibly permanently according to Twitter. I’m wondering if Stadler’s new depot isn’t fit for purpose to deal with the 40 year old trains? Something is going on.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,429
Location
County Durham
Nexus is advertising the rush hour Monkseaton trains are now cancelled. Possibly permanently according to Twitter. I’m wondering if Stadler’s new depot isn’t fit for purpose to deal with the 40 year old trains? Something is going on.
They’ve already returned. Don’t know why Metro have been saying they’re not running as this isn’t the case.

Ultimately with the trains, they’re old, they were life expired 13 years ago, and they’re now being maintained in a facility that staff are still getting used to. Not to mention the long backlog of repairs that have resulted from a spare parts shortage. Give them time and it’ll settle down.
 

Top