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UK General Election 2024

Now that we are in the final throes of the campaign, who will you be voting for?

  • Labour

    Votes: 58 50.0%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Reform

    Votes: 7 6.0%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 34 29.3%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 9 7.8%
  • SNP

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 2.6%

  • Total voters
    116

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
17,130
The manifesto suggests that it's £1.5 billion per year in savings put towards bus fare capping but I suppose it could only be a partial transfer.
£1.5bn would be something like half the entire England bus farebox!
Once you account for existing support mechanisms and concessionary travel the entire bus farebox in England is only about £3.3bn.
It would get within about £600m of allowing the abolition of all bus fares outside London.

They could just stop freezing it which would be a good start. They've spent over a decade making public transport less competitive as they boast about in the manifesto. I doubt that is good for public finances.
Well given that fuel duty is likely to go into terminal decline regardless, I don't think the freeze is going to make much difference now.
I'm also pretty sure that any attempt to resume the fuel duty escalator would lead to a repeat of the same protests that got it frozen in the first place in 2001.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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12 Apr 2012
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8,377
Location
SE London
Yes its a chord at Newark to allow trains to head north up the ECML from Nottingham. It was mentioned in the Network North proposals. There's no information on where the capacity is coming from for such a service but Andrew Gilligan doesn't think there's capacity issues on north south routes, so that probably explains the proposal.

I've created a new thread here to continue the discussion of a possible chord at Newark
 

AlterEgo

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30 Dec 2008
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No longer here
Sunak mentioned at his manifesto launch today that "sex means biological sex" and he proposed to amend the Equality Act to "guarantee sex-segregated spaces".

Other than this being a policy founded mostly on "the cruelty is the point", like so many other Tory schemes, um, how, exactly, does he plan to enforce this? Genital inspections at the changing rooms? DNA swabs? Reporting blokey looking women to the police?

What about trans people who have been living in their preferred gender for a long time, and who have accessed these spaces without quibble for all that time? What about people who have legally obtained a GRC? Is that now worthless?

I know trans women who publicly "pass", without even so much a raised eyebrow, as natal women. They are in the womens' networks at work. They use the womens' bathrooms at pubs. They are treated, in every single aspect of life with the exception of probably visiting the doctors, as ordinary women. These women do not belong in the mens' changing rooms. They live low profile, contented lives out of the public gaze.

This is an extreme policy which feels almost akin to citizenship being stripped of people, such is the loss of rights and dignity which will happen.
 

bspahh

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2017
Messages
1,804
Sunak mentioned at his manifesto launch today that "sex means biological sex" and he proposed to amend the Equality Act to "guarantee sex-segregated spaces".

Other than this being a policy founded mostly on "the cruelty is the point", like so many other Tory schemes, um, how, exactly, does he plan to enforce this?
The Conservatives would need to win the election for this to be an issue.

At Oddschecker the odds are: a Conservative majority government: 66-1, a Conservative minority government: 66-1, a Conservative-DUP coalition: 100-1 and a Labour majority: 1-16.

Unless Labour have a change of heart, I don't think its a practical problem.
 

SteveM70

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
4,082
Sunak mentioned at his manifesto launch today that "sex means biological sex" and he proposed to amend the Equality Act to "guarantee sex-segregated spaces".

Other than this being a policy founded mostly on "the cruelty is the point", like so many other Tory schemes, um, how, exactly, does he plan to enforce this? Genital inspections at the changing rooms? DNA swabs? Reporting blokey looking women to the police?

What about trans people who have been living in their preferred gender for a long time, and who have accessed these spaces without quibble for all that time? What about people who have legally obtained a GRC? Is that now worthless?

I know trans women who publicly "pass", without even so much a raised eyebrow, as natal women. They are in the womens' networks at work. They use the womens' bathrooms at pubs. They are treated, in every single aspect of life with the exception of probably visiting the doctors, as ordinary women. These women do not belong in the mens' changing rooms. They live low profile, contented lives out of the public gaze.

This is an extreme policy which feels almost akin to citizenship being stripped of people, such is the loss of rights and dignity which will happen.

He doesn't plan to enforce it. Its just there as a token offering to the frothing at the mouth loons on whom his (political at least) future depends
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
1,344
Location
Lichfield
They could just stop freezing it which would be a good start. They've spent over a decade making public transport less competitive as they boast about in the manifesto. I doubt that is good for public finances.

You don't have to drive to work and back 5 days a week then?
 

dgl

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2014
Messages
2,456
All this talk about same sex spaces and what have you misses out the big point that if done correctly unisex facilities are better, a swimming pool with simply a good amount of changing cubicles works just fine (which I bet 99% of holiday parks are like, all the ones I've been to are) and a simple room full of toilet cubicles (as they have at Lyme regis) works perfectly and prevents the issue of the ladies having a long queue with none for the gents.
Now you could argue that some people might want a proper shower but again that should be a cubicle as no one wants to see anyone else showering naked in a communal space, my sister certainly does not like that when she goes to our local leisure centre (yes they are single sex facilities).
 

Urobach

Member
Joined
26 Jun 2007
Messages
203
Page 60 of the Conservative manifesto contains:

2025 marks the 200th anniversary of the first passenger railway in the UK and we are the only party with a credible plan for rail reform. Labour’s incoherent and ideological nationalisation plan would put the trade unions in charge, continuing to prolong unaffordable and unfair working practices which are unjustifiable to the public. We will introduce a Rail Reform Bill in our first King’s Speech to create Great British Railways (GBR), headquartered in Derby. GBR will usher in a revitalised private-public partnership, delivering a modern and innovative railway with reliable services, and simpler tickets. We will task GBR with growing the role of the private sector, including supporting the expansion of open access services to bring greater choice for passengers. We will also look to include measures to reform outdated working practices in the rail industry in the Rail Reform Bill.

Predictably and very sadly look to continue the same blame the union and workers approach that has done the railway so well over the last couple of years, achieving nothing but unsuccessful legislation like Minimum Service Levels and regular strikes that I'm sure everyone is sick of.
 

Silver Cobra

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2015
Messages
882
Location
Bedfordshire
Page 60 of the Conservative manifesto contains:



Predictably and very sadly look to continue the same blame the union and workers approach that has done the railway so well over the last couple of years, achieving nothing but unsuccessful legislation like Minimum Service Levels and regular strikes that I'm sure everyone is sick of.
This alone is enough to make me refuse to vote for the Conservatives. We've already had to deal with over 2 years of disruption on the network due to industrial action caused by the Tories, and it's clear from the manifesto that, if they remain in power, it will continue for the foreseeable future. Granted, Labour won't fix the situation on day one, but I'm sure they'll come to a much more amicable solution in time than the Tories ever will.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
7,588
Yes its a chord at Newark to allow trains to head north up the ECML from Nottingham. It was mentioned in the Network North proposals. There's no information on where the capacity is coming from for such a service but Andrew Gilligan doesn't think there's capacity issues on north south routes, so that probably explains the proposal.

The £2 bus cap is being paid for by savings from rail reform which tells you all you need to know about this government and rail. I welcome a £2 bus cap extension but that shouldn't be a the expense of another sustainable mode. Allow fuel duty to rise to pay for it.
Thanks for the Newark info.
 

JGurney

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2021
Messages
153
Location
Teddington
Sunak mentioned at his manifesto launch today that "sex means biological sex"
I wonder whether he has no scientific advisors and really believes that the term "biological sex" has any clear meaning, or is used by biologists, or whether he knows perfectly well that it is too vague to be useful but is using it anyway.

Does he really mean phenotypical sex or genotypical sex?

What about trans people who have been living in their preferred gender for a long time, and who have accessed these spaces without quibble for all that time? What about people who have legally obtained a GRC? Is that now worthless?
Or people with CAIS who may well have no idea that while women at every level above the submicroscopic, they are genotypically male.
 

Sorcerer

Member
Joined
20 May 2022
Messages
946
Location
Liverpool

Sunak has exposed Starmer apparent intention to rig future elections, end of democracy here ?
He says that as if the Conservatives haven't already tried to blatantly gerrymander the mayoral and police and crime commissioner votes by changing it to first past the post, a system that heavily favours their party and has enabled them to win disproportionate amounts of power over the years. This is honestly just the typical line of fearmongering that I've come to expect from the Conservatives, especially now that they're in survival mode from being on the brink of what could be the worst results in the party's history.
 

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
382
Location
Hemel Hempstead
The £2 bus cap is being paid for by savings from rail reform which tells you all you need to know about this government and rail. I welcome a £2 bus cap extension but that shouldn't be an the expense of another sustainable mode. Allow fuel duty to rise to pay for it.
Have Labour said if they will continue the £2 bus cap?
 

brad465

Established Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
7,239
Location
Taunton or Kent

Sunak has exposed Starmer apparent intention to rig future elections, end of democracy here ?
Reading the article the only part of that talking about rigging future elections is lowering the voting age to 16. If allowing them to vote leads to more votes against the Tories, that's because the Tories cannot convince that group the Tories are best for them. But it's far easier of course to accuse them of "rigging elections" than try and appeal to more voter groups.
 
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Crithylum

Member
Joined
21 May 2024
Messages
20
Location
London Borough of Ealing
Reading the article the only part of that talking about rigging future elections is lowering the voting age to 16. If allowing them to vote leads to more votes against the Tories, that's because the Tories cannot convince that group the Tories are best for them. But it's far easier of course to accuse them of "rigging elections" than try and appeal to more voter groups.
Quite ironic of them to complain, given that a variety of older person’s travelcards are valid ID, but not any of the ones that young people have
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,372
R/e "biological sex" (a) Sunak needs to speak to Brianna's mum and get a lesson from her and (b) I'm an "out" transvestite and go into all sorts of pubs and clubs, not just those GLTB friendly.
Out of interest, which toilet would you like me to use? I'm happy using either - I prefer unisex obviously and also have a radar key due to my dodgy postrate so can use single accessible loos, but if it's a simple choice between gents and ladies I use the one with the best mirror!
Fire away, and I won't be insulted, I'm genuinely interested!
 

Temple Meads

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Joined
2 Sep 2010
Messages
2,238
Location
Devon
All this talk about same sex spaces and what have you misses out the big point that if done correctly unisex facilities are better, a swimming pool with simply a good amount of changing cubicles works just fine (which I bet 99% of holiday parks are like, all the ones I've been to are) and a simple room full of toilet cubicles (as they have at Lyme regis) works perfectly and prevents the issue of the ladies having a long queue with none for the gents.
Now you could argue that some people might want a proper shower but again that should be a cubicle as no one wants to see anyone else showering naked in a communal space, my sister certainly does not like that when she goes to our local leisure centre (yes they are single sex facilities).

The problem with unisex facilities is that this usually means a lack of urinals, and the result is that every cubicle is splattered by gents who have a poor aim, which doesn't help to maintain hygiene.
 

Russel

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Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
1,344
Location
Lichfield
No I have to take public transport which has seen significant price increases above inflation.

I guessed as much.

Fuel duty is currently 52p a litre I believe, petrol is £1.45 a litre on average, so fuel duty already makes up over a third of the price per litre, is that not paying enough already?

As cars are something most people rely on, I can't imagine raising fuel duty being a popular manifesto pledge.
 

AlterEgo

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No longer here

birchesgreen

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16 Jun 2020
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Birmingham
Rishi had to sacrifice a lot when he was a child apparently, including no Sky TV. Personally i spent most of my childhood shivering because my parents could barely afford to turn the heating on but poor Rishi had it really hard!
 

Snow1964

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Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
6,729
Location
West Wiltshire
Sky news is commenting on latest YouGov poll taken Monday and Tuesday morning
Lib Dem, Reform, Greens all up
Labour & Conservatives both down

Our latest exclusive voting intention poll from YouGov has just dropped, showing the Conservatives have fallen to 18% - down one point on last week.

The survey was carried out throughout Monday and also on Tuesday morning - ahead of their manifesto launch today.

And with Reform going up by one point this week to 17%, Nigel Farage's outfit are hot on their heels.

Labour is still racing ahead with a 20-point lead on 38%, but have lost three points over the past week.

There's good news for the Liberal Democrats, who have seen a four-point rise in their polling numbers to 15% - perhaps helped by the focus on their manifesto launch and list of policies to kick off the week.

 

The Ham

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Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
10,480
The problem with unisex facilities is that this usually means a lack of urinals, and the result is that every cubicle is splattered by gents who have a poor aim, which doesn't help to maintain hygiene.

Two points.

I'd hate to think what their own homes are like - although I suspect that there's likely to be some arrogance behind it (i.e. it's someone's job to clean it so what's it matter that I make a mess).

More seriously, it's possible to have urinal based cubicles, obviously it only really works were there's enough capacity that having these doesn't result in delays for other users.

R/e "biological sex" (a) Sunak needs to speak to Brianna's mum and get a lesson from her and (b) I'm an "out" transvestite and go into all sorts of pubs and clubs, not just those GLTB friendly.
Out of interest, which toilet would you like me to use? I'm happy using either - I prefer unisex obviously and also have a radar key due to my dodgy postrate so can use single accessible loos, but if it's a simple choice between gents and ladies I use the one with the best mirror!
Fire away, and I won't be insulted, I'm genuinely interested!

For the avoidance of doubt, anything I say is general and not necessarily about any individual.

I would like to think that as long as everyone is respectful to each other, the bottom line is that it shouldn't overly matter.

Issues tend to arise where people haven't been respectfully which means that others similar to them are then treated with suspicion. Sometimes the general behaviour of some men (see example above of poor toileting skills) can cause significant suspicion of all men.

There was a recent trend on TikTok where the question was posed, would you rather meet a man or a bear in the woods, a LOT of women said a bear as they'd feel safer! Some even suggested data backed up the reasoning behind this! (The data looked at the US, so the UK maybe different and is harder to compare as there's no wild bears).

The point of highlighting that is to highlight the mindset of at least some women (and potentially a greater number than we may think) when it comes to potentially sharing space with people they feel that way towards. With that potentially (and unfortunately) because of their personal experience, not least 1 in 5 being subject to some form of sexual assault (yes I'm aware that could be by women as well as men), it's not much better for men at 1 in 6 (which should be remembered can be from men, I dint know the data on the split, however I fear that I could guess that a noticeable amount it by men).

Obviously, there's a lot of complexity in this and the fact that certain people in the public sphere can say things like "grab a women by their..." without everyone condemning them certainly isn't helping matters.

Likewise I'm not suggesting that anyone reading this is personally doing those things (although if they are, they should reconsider their behaviour).

As I started by saying, it shouldn't matter if people are respectful, unfortunately too many are not and so it impacts how willing people are to share spaces.

This also means that it's far more complex to pick an answer for policy answers and why almost every politician will tangle themselves up when questioned on their views. Even when their first statement appears coherent (mostly as they'll have had time to prepare their answers).
 

Gloster

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4 Sep 2020
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8,932
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Up the creek
Poor little Rishi
Didn‘t have a dishy
Poor little Rishi
Won’t have his wishy
When the vote comes in
 
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DynamicSpirit

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12 Apr 2012
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8,377
Location
SE London
I guessed as much.

Fuel duty is currently 52p a litre I believe, petrol is £1.45 a litre on average, so fuel duty already makes up over a third of the price per litre, is that not paying enough already?

As cars are something most people rely on, I can't imagine raising fuel duty being a popular manifesto pledge.

Considering the vast damage that cars do to the environment and quality of life for everyone who lives around the places motorists drive in - which from the estimates I've seen considerably exceed the money paid in fuel duties, no, fuel duty probably isn't enough, and is currently set at such a low level that it amounts to a hidden subsidy given to motorists. That of course goes a long way to explain why so many people still choose to drive even when there are perfectly good alternatives.

But as you say, the problem is that raising it would not be popular - despite that raising fuel duties to pay for more investment etc. would actually be a lot fairer (and economically more efficient) than raising other taxes.

All this talk about same sex spaces and what have you misses out the big point that if done correctly unisex facilities are better, a swimming pool with simply a good amount of changing cubicles works just fine (which I bet 99% of holiday parks are like, all the ones I've been to are) and a simple room full of toilet cubicles (as they have at Lyme regis) works perfectly and prevents the issue of the ladies having a long queue with none for the gents.
Now you could argue that some people might want a proper shower but again that should be a cubicle as no one wants to see anyone else showering naked in a communal space, my sister certainly does not like that when she goes to our local leisure centre (yes they are single sex facilities).

That logic may well work when building new facilities, but how is it going to work for the thousands of gyms, leisure centres, schools, colleges, and other public and commercial buildings that provide toilets that already exist? It would cost a fortune to convert all their toilet/shower facilities to private unisex cubicles, and in most cases there wouldn't be the space anyway within the existing buildings.
 
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