Un-consisted traffic going out on the network. Who should be checking?

[K2rockall]

Hello,

Recently we have experienced a few incidents of un-consisted traffic being released onto the network, only to be brought to a stand when the mistake has been realised and cue a mad dash to source paperwork etc. I believe the consist has always been created by the operator, but for whatever reason was slow to update to TOPs/Trust.

Does anyone know who should be checking that a train has a valid consist before going out on the network? Is it the Signaller/Control Centre staff? I can't find anything in the rule books suggesting that this is a required task. Would appreciate any pointers/experience with this topic.

 

[GB]

I don't know if its specifically part of their duties or not but all the yards I have worked the signaller has checked if there is a consist before allowing the train to depart. If there was no consist then they would normally contact us.

 

[Highlandspring]

Hello,

Recently we have experienced a few incidents of un-consisted traffic being released onto the network, only to be brought to a stand when the mistake has been realised and cue a mad dash to source paperwork etc. I believe the consist has always been created by the operator, but for whatever reason was slow to update to TOPs/Trust.

Does anyone know who should be checking that a train has a valid consist before going out on the network? Is it the Signaller/Control Centre staff? I can't find anything in the rule books suggesting that this is a required task. Would appreciate any pointers/experience with this topic.

It’s a FOC responsibility to ensure a train is consisted in TOPS before it enters the network. It’s not in the Rule Book or Working Manual but the requirement will be set out in their Safety Management System and Network Licence.

However Network Rail Train Running Controllers should be proactively checking for this as and when (it’s not actually in the National Operating Procedures but it is in the TRC training and it is regarded as best practice) and any missing consists are highlighted to the appropriate FOC Control to correct as soon as possible. If dangerous goods are involved then it’s classed as a dangerous goods irregularity and the NR TRC has to fill out a DGI report on Rail Notices.

Sometimes a train can’t be consisted for various reasons so a manual list is accepted by NR Control and can be forwarded to signalboxes by email when required. There’s no requirement for the signaller to check for a consist before allowing a freight train to enter the network but in my experience most will do so and flag up any issues to the TRC.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I always check the consist, no consist and it gets stopped / looped until the operator sorts it out.

Especially with freight we need to know if it’s dangerous, route restricted etc.

 

[Highlandspring]

Absolutely. That said there’s a small subset of signallers who have zero interest and motivation though, and quite a few (mainly in smaller passing boxes) would struggle to look up or interpret a TOPS consist anyway.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Absolutely. That said there’s a small subset of signallers who have zero interest and motivation though, and quite a few (mainly in smaller passing boxes) would struggle to look up or interpret a TOPS consist anyway.

Oh yes, N/A passing every timing point leading to the Mainline junction so you’ve no idea where it is!

 

[Class 170101]

Surely a consist is important otherwise you could end up with an out of gauge load and hit something - like what happened at Basingstoke for a Freightliner to Southampton?

 

[D6130]

I always check the consist, no consist and it gets stopped / looped until the operator sorts it out.

Especially with freight we need to know if it’s dangerous, route restricted etc.

I wonder whether this is the reason why 6Y19, 11 20 Mountfield Sidings-Southampton Western Docks was held for 70 minutes at Factory Junction yesterday and then sent back to Tonbridge via the Hounslow Loop? (See thread on UK Railway Discussion forum).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder whether this is the reason why 6Y19, 11 20 Mountfield Sidings-Southampton Western Docks was held for 70 minutes at Factory Junction yesterday and then sent back to Tonbridge via the Hounslow Loop? (See thread on UK Railway Discussion forum).

I don't think so; posts on se-gen suggested brake issues, which developed at Beckenham Junction, on at least one of the wagons.

 

[Highlandspring]

Surely a consist is important otherwise you could end up with an out of gauge load and hit something - like what happened at Basingstoke for a Freightliner to Southampton?

It is important, which is why no freight service is supposed to enter the network without being consisted as per my post aboce.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I am rather surprised that drivers are apparently willing to set off with 'no paperwork'. I am well aware how sketchy things could be back in the days before TOPS was seen as an essential safety system but it seems unlikely that a current driver would be happy with no idea of trailing weight, brake force, any out of gauge loads, absence of a 'closure certificate', etc., as appropriate.

Is the question actually about apparent glitches in train loading details being 'visible on the system' for other interested parties?

 

[3973EXL]

There is a difference between the computer generated train list for a service and the TOPS consist.

A train list would normally be produced and checked during train preparation and signed on completion. This includes the Drivers slip section.
All this maybe done well in advanced of departure and given to the driver before departure.

The actual train on the TOPS system is called before departure time and requires 3 inputs - power consist - train consist - dep time. Except for dep these can be input once the train is called, even calling it early if it departs before time. If inputs are left to actual departure there is always the possibility of a delayed input if the person is busy/computer problem/forgets etc.

Although not being involved for a few years, I never knew a Driver to go without a computer list/manual train list from Ground Staff or verbal details from the TOPS office.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There is a difference between the computer generated train list for a service and the TOPS consist.

A train list would normally be produced and checked during train preparation and signed on completion. This includes the Drivers slip section.
All this maybe done well in advanced of departure and given to the driver before departure.

The actual train on the TOPS system is called before departure time and requires 3 inputs - power consist - train consist - dep time. Except for dep these can be input once the train is called, even calling it early if it departs before time. If inputs are left to actual departure there is always the possibility of a delayed input if the person is busy/computer problem/forgets etc.

Although not being involved for a few years, I never knew a Driver to go without a computer list/manual train list from Ground Staff or verbal details from the TOPS office.

Is this the same as a POIS list?

 

[3973EXL]

Is this the same as a POIS list?

Different procedure from freight trains on TOPS and the printout is different.

POIS was an add on for coaching stock which works by allocating a carriage set (eg LA01) to a diagram (eg PM101) then a list can be printed off for a train on that diagram.

 

[GB]

There is a difference between the computer generated train list for a service and the TOPS consist.

A train list would normally be produced and checked during train preparation and signed on completion. This includes the Drivers slip section.
All this maybe done well in advanced of departure and given to the driver before departure.

The actual train on the TOPS system is called before departure time and requires 3 inputs - power consist - train consist - dep time. Except for dep these can be input once the train is called, even calling it early if it departs before time. If inputs are left to actual departure there is always the possibility of a delayed input if the person is busy/computer problem/forgets etc.

Although not being involved for a few years, I never knew a Driver to go without a computer list/manual train list from Ground Staff or verbal details from the TOPS office.

indeed. We have services that stable at a yard over the weekend. The train list for Mondays train is produced Saturday with the consisting done sometime before departure Monday. Likewise I have never known a driver to depart without a trainlist....that would be a huge no no.
you also can’t consist a train without a schedule and can’t call a schedule more than about 9 hours in advance.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There was an incident one day last week, where a none passenger train was stopped south of Tamworth (on the high level) because a signaller hadn't received the relevant paperwork in relation to the train. It caused at least one or two Cross Country trains behind it to be delayed by around half an hour.

 

[3973EXL]

Always possible it was consist related for say, DG reasons, as mentioned in a previous post.

Equally, if paperwork was involved, it may have been an X headcode (exceptional load) passing between signalbox areas with the receiving box not having the 3973 form.

With an exception load all parties (Driver/Signaller/Control) must be in possession of a 3973EXL form as this details route and any restrictions.