Understanding Spotting and Enthusiasts

[Monkey Magic]

I just feel that any hobby that comes into contact with people not doing it will get a bad rap - look at the abuse cyclists get, or the stereotype of the real ale bore, or wrestling fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI.

What tends to get a hobby a bad rap is the obsessives - whether that is railways, football, golf, birdwatching etc because it is the most extreme element of it, and perhaps because of its obsessiveness - not necessarily the most well rounded.

At its worst it can be end up being very obnoxious - ie walking down the end of the ramp, shouting at people for blocking their photograph, poisoning someone elses flowers etc etc

Unfortunately, those are the ones you are most likely to run into at the end of the platform when waiting for your train home, or outside the airport, or at your local beer festival.

As I said, at the York event last year I was embarrassed by the behaviour and attitude of many of the people around me but then I suppose at an event like that it is only to be expected.

 

[hulabaloo]

I've only "come out" over the past couple of years about my interest in trains with the lads down the pub. You get to an age when you don't give a monkey's what other people think anyway, and can take some light-hearted ribbing.

Having said that, I don't think I could ever do the whole spotting thing, I'm just interested in all forms of transport, be it Trains, Planes and Automobiles. It's the tech and engineering that fascinates me - although I did get a bit overexcited down the pub last weekend after a couple of ales discussing the Napier Deltic engines. They understood though and even reminisced about Paxman Valentas and how trains don't make that noise any more (I explained that HSTs now have less noisy, more efficient engines). I may even be convincing a few that it's ok to talk about this in public

 

[TheNewNo2]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

I can understand being interested in the infrastructure and how it all works and also interested in the engineering of steam trains but the others to be fair I am at a loss what the attraction is. Please don't take this as a wee wee take I see a lot of spotters and am just trying to understand why they do it?

1. Can't say I am.
2. Can't say I am.
3. Can't say I do.
4. Completion.
5. Practicing for the fourth reich?
6. I add coloured lines to Google Earth.
7. I aim to be nice to all drivers.
8. This and that.
9. Do you?
10. I don't have a book, I have a piece of paper and a database.

One related question I have often wondered. Whilst one sees enthusiasts at lots of stations, there regularly seems to be a particular number at Doncaster. Why is that?

I saw more trainspotters than I'd ever seen in one place before when I went to Eastleigh. It made me want to leave. I don't like trainspotting in a crowd, I picked an antisocial hobby because I'm antisocial, not so I could talk to people. I also don't understand the fascination with locomotives.

I have to say I'm never sure what the point is of noting down numbers for absolutely no reason.

If it is noting down numbers to compile a list of vehicles in a new livery, or moved to a new depot or operator, or to try and work out service allocations or diagrams, I can see a point, but just writing down that you've seen a load of trains once is not for me.

The behaviour of some enthusiasts is cringeworthy though, from a bus point of view, I don't go to as many bus rallies as I used to, because the sort of people you see makes you question your hobby and often reinforces all the negative stereotypes that I try to get away from.

I have no particular reason for it other than I do it.

Surely it's little different to most hobbies ?

Why do people go fishing - and then throw the fish back in ?

Why do people go to watch 11 men try to kick a ball between two posts ?

Why do people buy a telescope to gaze into the sky ?

No idea.
No idea.
Assuming it's dark and there are no clouds it's pretty. Otherwise no idea.

And why would you want to stick your head out of a moving train unless you wanted to open the window in order to open the door?

To take photos, to see what's going on.... You need to be sensible obviously - don't just stick your head out without peeping first to make sure there are no trees/signals coming, and always look in the direction of travel - but if you behave it's ok.

 

[D1009]

I do remember the term "Trainspotter" being used by those who had graduated into haulage or mileage bashing as a form of abuse of those who hadn't.

 

[Ianigsy]

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

1. I guess it's similar to the reason why some people ride a Harley Davidson rather than a faster or more fuel efficient motorbike- some noisy machines just have a bit more character than others.

2. I'd rather be going up one in a train than on foot!

3. I have to say that I quite like going to a preserved line and just having a window into a time without 21st-century pressures and where hands-on engineering was a valued calling.

4. A completist thing, I'd say, but again if you're into some of the more popular classes then sometimes you see a class member which was under your radar. I can remember going 50-bashing from Salisbury to Basingstoke one afternoon in the early 90s and being hauled by 50003 'Temeraire' and 50018 'Resolution', both fairly low-profile class members at a time when the 50s were getting a lot of attention.

5. No idea- this has come in since my serious spotting days!

6. No idea- if it's dark I want to get home!

7. The only time I catch a 153 is usually on the S&C when I've been out walking, so I'm smiling because I've got sore feet and the train home has turned up!

8. Very little, although I do share some with my dad, who is a published railway photographer of some 30 years' standing.

9. Never.

10. Again, it's a completist thing, I guess. Stamp collectors do the same, beer tickers...and just think of all those books with 1000 records to listen to, films to see or books to read before you die.

To my mind it isn't an end in itself, but being a railway enthusiast includes travelling to new places and enjoying the journey itself. For a brief example, the last new bits of UK track I cleared were St Pancras to London Bridge to visit Tate Modern and then later that same day, Marylebone to Harrow on the Hill to take a picture of a 67 at Marylebone and then return to Kings Cross and my train home with my first ride on an S stock underground train.

 

[fowler9]

I remember about a decade or maybe more ago I actually told a load of mates that I grew up liking trains. I got a bit of mickey taking at first but everyone realised that I was still the same person and wasn't by nature "Boring". I think the whole "Boring" thing may come from people with any hobby who don't talk about anything else. Nothing wrong with that either, as long as they are happy. That is all anyone can ask for.

As I've got older I have become more comfortable in my skin. I have no problem at all telling people I work with or new friends that I like trains, planes and automobiles (And ships and buses). I no longer have the same interest in going out bashing because units don't interest me as much. I still like reading peoples trip reports though.

I'm going to Poland on Thursday to see a death metal band from Sweden that played in the UK recently. I just wanted to go to Warsaw to see them though, and I'll travel around on public transport. Loads of people in work are really interested in what I am doing and why. No one is really interested in the girl in work who has gone to Mallorca for a week. They'll like the photos and that on Facebook of her and her mates in various bars but seriously! It is boring! Ha ha.

 

[Josie]

But I wouldn't mind betting that there's a dearth of non-professional members in the 25-40 age bracket here (go on, prove me wrong ).

Late-20s woman with a baby We're really in a minority! I'm not a spotter, but like lots of others here I admire their dedication to their hobby.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But I wouldn't mind betting that there's a dearth of non-professional members in the 25-40 age bracket here (go on, prove me wrong ).

I'm in that bracket, and my boss definitely wouldn't call me professional

But I don't care about the actual trains, really. Don't see the point of counting them. I can tell the difference, but don't care which one it is (unless it's the Pendolino named "Virgin Invader", just so I can laugh). I find the industry fascinating though.

 

[TheNewNo2]

I can tell the difference, but don't care which one it is (unless it's the Pendolino named "Virgin Invader", just so I can laugh).

I noticed there was one called that the other day and just had to wonder if they'd really thought it through.

As for the Professional thing, I was a trainspotter in my 25-40s before I got a job in the industry.

 

[MK Tom]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

I can understand being interested in the infrastructure and how it all works and also interested in the engineering of steam trains but the others to be fair I am at a loss what the attraction is. Please don't take this as a wee wee take I see a lot of spotters and am just trying to understand why they do it?

My attempt for what it's worth:

1. Because it's awesome, in the literal sense of the word. Loud noises and big clouds communicate a sense of power and force. It's like watching a plane take off. There's just so much raw power there and that's cool. An electric loco is a lot more powerful, but the roar and clag of a Deltic is something you can tangibly feel.

2. Because the loco has to work harder to get up them, resulting in more force, especially if you have a Clarkson-style driver who gets to a gradient and shouts 'POWER!!!'.

3. Because the past had steam, more interesting/exciting diesels, loco-haulage, slam doors, quaint architecture and infrastructure, and so on. Personally I love today's railways, but I entirely understand nostalgia and the love of history, in railways and in general.

4. Not much really. It's the Pokemon effect I think, ''gotta catch 'em all''. Personally I will sometimes try to photograph every member of a type, but only a type that's of particular interest to me. It's not something I do normally.

5. Again, loud noises are cool.

6. Other than to colour it in on a map, none whatsoever. Doing so in daylight has many attractions though.

7. I don't, does anyone? The only time 153s amuse me is when I can visibly see the middle sagging.

8. Put them online at mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com or my Flickr account in my signature below.

9. No, but I am what people seem to term a ''grammar nazi'' insofar as I rather like using the English language's ability to describe things eloquently in the proper manner, and therefore resist the urge to employ crude and embarrassing terminology such as that to which you refer.

10. I don't do this, other than a word document that records which individuals of a few certain types I've managed to photograph, but it's to collect things. I can completely understand this - it's the same reason that the entire Stargate franchise is sitting on my shelf. Collecting. Owning them all.

I hope this is of some help. Try to keep in mind that many of these things apply to a huge range of different hobbies, and everyone sees the world in a different way.

 

[TransportHub]

My attempt for what it's worth:
2. Because the loco has to work harder to get up them, resulting in more force, especially if you have a Clarkson-style driver who gets to a gradient and shouts 'POWER!!!'.

This made me giggle!

 

[ANDYS]

I have to agree with the reply from Fowler9 a few posts above.

Myself and my 12 year old son go out all the time just to see what we see. He prefers his buses at the moment, I still prefer planes but the fact that we can go out all over the country makes us both happy. The number of places he has been too and his knowledge of places is fantastic.

When I am back at work on Monday and my colleagues ask where we got too at the weekend they nearly always say something along the lines of "we've never been to ......" and I think that is half the point for me and my son. If we were not interested in the transport scene around us then I bet we would never go to half these places. Last half-term we ended up on a cheap very budget weekend in Glasgow (and ended up in Kilmarnock as well) and then we ended up in Milton Keynes/Bedford three days later. Long may this continue before he discovers girls, work, debt, stress etc which unfortunately effects so many people in this rat race of a world.

Andy S

P.S. Fowler9, why do death metal bands always come from Sweden? Check out my avatar for my own favourites. UP THE IRONS!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Long may this continue before he discovers girls, work, debt, stress etc which unfortunately effects so many people in this rat race of a world.

Nothing wrong with discovering girls although I'm sure you will advise your son to choose carefully.

 

[fowler9]

I have to agree with the reply from Fowler9 a few posts above.

Myself and my 12 year old son go out all the time just to see what we see. He prefers his buses at the moment, I still prefer planes but the fact that we can go out all over the country makes us both happy. The number of places he has been too and his knowledge of places is fantastic.

When I am back at work on Monday and my colleagues ask where we got too at the weekend they nearly always say something along the lines of "we've never been to ......" and I think that is half the point for me and my son. If we were not interested in the transport scene around us then I bet we would never go to half these places. Last half-term we ended up on a cheap very budget weekend in Glasgow (and ended up in Kilmarnock as well) and then we ended up in Milton Keynes/Bedford three days later. Long may this continue before he discovers girls, work, debt, stress etc which unfortunately effects so many people in this rat race of a world.

Andy S

P.S. Fowler9, why do death metal bands always come from Sweden? Check out my avatar for my own favourites. UP THE IRONS!

Ha ha. I guess the fact it is cold and dark up there kind of helps. Fits in with the mood of the music. A lot was down to Sunlight Studios in Stockholm. The almost chainsaw like guitar sound was popular in the early 90's. Bands like Entombed took off.

It always tickles me that people in general think if you like trains you are boring, or if you like Metal you are a Dungeons and Dragons bore. Peoples concept of what is boring is fascinating, especially in the Twitter/Facebook age. Most "Interesting" people are deeply and depressingly boring. They love discussing reality TV and going to the same **** poor holiday destinations year after year.

If I tell someone I am going to Polands Capital city for a weekend to ride around on public transport, see the city and watch some nutty death metal band then people get interested. You tell someone you are going to sit by the pool in Magaluf for a week and people say "Oooh lovely".

 

[bb21]

Can someone tell me what "lordz" means? I think I can just about make out the meaning of "hellfire" but that other one really baffles me.

 

[richieb1971]

I only film trains. Capturing the era.

I find it gives me a reason to travel, get outside, do stuff. I find rail enthusiasts to be honest, harmless gentlemen to be honest. I have never come across a prat like I have in all other walks of life.

If anyone wants to light rib me thats fine. I find it amusing that people spend £2000 on golf clubs to hit a white ball up a green and call that a good day out!!! I find it silly that people watch football matches at extortionate prices so that players can get even more money out of you. Or people that go fishing and throw everything back in the water. But I don't take the **** out of them.. They are finding their peace, just like me.

 

[Monkey Magic]

What I don't understand is why some people feel the need to go right to the edge of the ramp etc to get their photos. I was at Banbury the other day waiting for my train home and there were a couple of older guys who seemed to think that there was no issue with going beyond the 'do not go beyond this point' signs.

Does it really make such a difference to the photos that you have to be halfway down the ramp?

This is why I don't admit to being interested in railways. I don't want to be associated with those kind of guys.

 

[Temple Meads]

Does it really make such a difference to the photos that you have to be halfway down the ramp?

Speaking as a photographer, moving a small amount can make a massive difference to pictures (allowing you to zoom past a signal or tree etc), however there is of course no justification at all for trespassing in order to take a photograph.

 

[devinier]

I only film trains. Capturing the era.

I find it gives me a reason to travel, get outside, do stuff. I find rail enthusiasts to be honest, harmless gentlemen to be honest. I have never come across a prat like I have in all other walks of life.

If anyone wants to light rib me thats fine. I find it amusing that people spend £2000 on golf clubs to hit a white ball up a green and call that a good day out!!! I find it silly that people watch football matches at extortionate prices so that players can get even more money out of you. Or people that go fishing and throw everything back in the water. But I don't take the **** out of them.. They are finding their peace, just like me.

You are spot on.

It's ironic though that so many railway workers play golf, watch football, go fishing
or do all 3 !!

 

[richieb1971]

Speaking as a photographer, moving a small amount can make a massive difference to pictures (allowing you to zoom past a signal or tree etc), however there is of course no justification at all for trespassing in order to take a photograph.

You would think the winner gets £500 for the best photo or something.

 

[Monkey Magic]

Indeed, I mean a 3/4 wedgie shot of a Turbo pulling into a station. The worst are when there is a steam special, I remember being at Guildford or Redhill and there were these guys heading down the ramp where there is the third rail and they certainly aren't looking where they are walking.

They are a minority for sure, just like a minority of football fans are violent, but they are the ones who give the hobby a bad name.

 

[monsento]

true i love calling them back to get told, i know what im doing or something similar... i was doing this before you were born.... jobsworth... worse...

Indeed, I mean a 3/4 wedgie shot of a Turbo pulling into a station. The worst are when there is a steam special, I remember being at Guildford or Redhill and there were these guys heading down the ramp where there is the third rail and they certainly aren't looking where they are walking.

They are a minority for sure, just like a minority of football fans are violent, but they are the ones who give the hobby a bad name.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
if everyone were like you it would be a fine and fun activity. as for prats you have been very lucky to many exist sadly..

had one guy wearing a company high vis once... way down onto the ballast...

I only film trains. Capturing the era.

I find it gives me a reason to travel, get outside, do stuff. I find rail enthusiasts to be honest, harmless gentlemen to be honest. I have never come across a prat like I have in all other walks of life.

If anyone wants to light rib me thats fine. I find it amusing that people spend £2000 on golf clubs to hit a white ball up a green and call that a good day out!!! I find it silly that people watch football matches at extortionate prices so that players can get even more money out of you. Or people that go fishing and throw everything back in the water. But I don't take the **** out of them.. They are finding their peace, just like me.

 

[Monkey Magic]

The one other thing I've never understood is why some people take railways so personally. You only need to look on here to see the number of mouth-breathers angry people who get very worked up about any number of things. Fair enough I get that people have a favourite unit, route etc etc, but I've never understood why people take criticism of that thing so personally, or get so angry about it.

I guess though that if you are living your life vicariously through something (especially an inanimate object/company) then you are perhaps not the most socially well adjusted.

Again though this can also be levelled at sports fans as well.

 

[bb21]

I guess though that if you are living your life vicariously through something (especially an inanimate object/company) then you are perhaps not the most socially well adjusted.

Again though this can also be levelled at sports fans as well.

Not sure that is quite true but it gave me a few giggles.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Why do you (spotters) stand and stare through cab windows at stations, or point cameras at the front of the train from close quarters, with no regard to the driver's privacy or personal space?
Why do you pester a total stranger for access to a restricted workplace, when you see one of us entering our cabs?

 

[Tommy1581]

Why do you (spotters) stand and stare through cab windows at stations, or point cameras at the front of the train from close quarters, with no regard to the driver's privacy or personal space?
Why do you pester a total stranger for access to a restricted workplace, when you see one of us entering our cabs?

I can certainly say that I don't, and never have done any of them things, although I know people who have (...they fit the description of "veg").

I wouldn't be surprised if a driver/employee started to follow a spotter/veg back to their house and pester them for entry to their bedroom.

 

[wellwhatitis]

As a relative newcomer to the rail industry, the thing that gets me is that both enthusiasts and passengers alike seem to assume that I must be interested in trains and have vast knowledge of them. I hate the feeling that passengers in particular must associate me with these platform statues and assume I am made of the same stuff. It makes me very uneasy.

I have no interest whatsoever in the railway, other than to do my utmost to provide service to both my employer and the passengers that I am there for in the 36 hours per week I am working. I have the knowledge I have been given in training, and have topped it up with the odd thing that has cropped up along the way that helps me with my job and my passengers.

It is a job that I needed and need and that is it for me. And people like me do seem to be frowned upon by many in the industry which I find alarming, as it doesn't happen in other industries where people just come to work to earn money and make a living. Ironically we are also the ones that seem to turn up like clockwork and do our jobs.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

...I have no interest whatsoever in the railway, other than to do my utmost to provide service to both my employer and the passengers that I am there for in the 36 hours per week I am working.

O come on, you joined this forum!

 

[SPADTrap]

As a relative newcomer to the rail industry, the thing that gets me is that both enthusiasts and passengers alike seem to assume that I must be interested in trains and have vast knowledge of them. I hate the feeling that passengers in particular must associate me with these platform statues and assume I am made of the same stuff. It makes me very uneasy.

I have no interest whatsoever in the railway, other than to do my utmost to provide service to both my employer and the passengers that I am there for in the 36 hours per week I am working. I have the knowledge I have been given in training, and have topped it up with the odd thing that has cropped up along the way that helps me with my job and my passengers.

It is a job that I needed and need and that is it for me. And people like me do seem to be frowned upon by many in the industry which I find alarming, as it doesn't happen in other industries where people just come to work to earn money and make a living. Ironically we are also the ones that seem to turn up like clockwork and do our jobs.

Those who are enthusiasts and those who are in denial

 

[TDK]

O come on, you joined this forum!

I joined this forum to help people understand the workings of the railway instead of 2nd guessing and not because I like trains, in fact I have no interest in trains or the railway outside of work it is just a job to me that earns me enough money to live comfortable and retire early with a great pension anything else is a no interest to me!