Unexpected Visitors To Signal Boxes

[Sunset route]

According to railway experts commenting on the alleged incidents, a moment's distraction could easily lead to the horror of two packed commuter trains crashing into each other.

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/5697154.Rail_worker_suspended/?ref=arc

I don't think much of these so called railway experts, haven't they heard of interlocking, it's been around a long time

 

[Springs Branch]

Speaking of unwelcome, rather than simply unexpected visitors, I remember seeing a website dealing with the history of Salford which had a former signalman's account of working at Brindle Heath Junction box.

In its heyday Brindle Heath Jn was in the middle of lots of railway infrastructure (multiple running lines, sidings, steam loco depot etc). By the end of the 1960s most of this had been dismantled, leaving the signalbox and a simple double track junction in the middle of an extensive abandoned wasteland.

Not far away was Pendleton, a rough and notorious area of inner-city blight, with its brutal post-war tenements & tower blocks and ample complement of disaffected "yoofs" and ne'er-do-wells. The two photos from Flickr illustrate the location.

The signalman's story was that at night Brindle Heath Jn would regularly be under siege from local vandals hurling stones (ballast) at the box windows from somewhere out in the surrounding darkness, with windows often being smashed until BR installed all-over protective grills. I can imagine it would be a very stressful and threatening place to be working on your own on a late shift - even if nothing was happening, you would never knew when something might kick off, or what creative methods of vandalism the scrotes might dream up next.

Apparently, after Brindle Heath closed following re-signaling, it was only a matter of weeks before the box was burned down by arsonists.

I suppose this wasn't the only mechanical signal box to suffer this kind of problem in Britain's rougher areas.



Brindle Heath Junction by Ingy The Wingy, on Flickr


Brindle Heath Junction by Ingy The Wingy, on Flickr

 

[bramling]

I don't think much of these so called railway experts, haven't they heard of interlocking, it's been around a long time

To be fair, it is quite easy for things to go wrong in a signal box, normally when something out-of-course happens and the signaller isn't used to dealing with a distraction.

It's basically down to the signaller's discretion - as someone else posted elsewhere if the signaller is comfortable with a visitor then it shouldn't be a major problem, however if he says go then go means go, for good reason!

 

[Sunset route]

To be fair, it is quite easy for things to go wrong in a signal box, normally when something out-of-course happens and the signaller isn't used to dealing with a distraction.

It's basically down to the signaller's discretion - as someone else posted elsewhere if the signaller is comfortable with a visitor then it shouldn't be a major problem, however if he says go then go means go, for good reason!

It's very hard to crash a train as a signaller, I would say it would have to be almost a deliberate act and as for distraction, try working in a multi panel signalling centre with the best part of 15 signallers/SSMs as well as 2 or 3 TDACs for good measure all on the opps floor. It doesn't have to be visitors that causes distractions it can be your colleagues.

 

[Llanigraham]

And yet I cannot see a link?

Hint:
Try adding the words news of the world and the relevant box into your search engine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember taking an evening break while on my driving job several years ago and deciding to take some photos, from the station platform, of a (now closed) box. Signalman invited me in for photos and I accepted.

While I was there an unfamiliar bell code came through which, according to the bloke on duty at the box I was visiting, was the signalman in the next box up the line advising that his missus had arrived with his dinner. Unfortunately I cannot recall which box it was, nor can I recall the bell code.

Dave

We used to have a bell code to say the LOM was on his rounds!

 

[theblackwatch]

As a child we often used to visit relatives in Lancaster/Morecambe during the school holidays and we'd go down to Hest Bank where one of the signalmen would often let us go into the signalbox. Happy days.

Nowadays, it's still possible to do official visits on occasions - I did one with the Branch Line Society last year, visiting six boxes on my local line. Unsurprisingly, such trips tend to fill quite quickly.

 

[Sunset route]

We used to have a bell code to say the LOM was on his rounds!

Same here for our Signal Managers SMs they weren't LOMs when I last worked a single manned mechanical box. I wonder if it's a universal national code or if every area had its own take on it lol

Speaking of uninvited visitors I had to use 1-1-6 bell code in anger once, only for my colleague to ring up and ask is that what I think it was and do I really need then, the answer was a very nervous and quiet "yeah & yeah" . It was a hot summers evening the box door was open and a very nice gentleman with a knife and attitude walked straight in. He did leave just before the police turned up and was arrested on the platform. Thank god we got aircon and a palisade fence not long after that.

 

[signallerscot]

Giving a 'flat' call attention does the trick round here.

On another note, any signaller who lets a child they're not directly related to into the box these days needs their bloody head examined.

 

[Elecman]

In older days the management would deliberately Not visit adjacent boxes as they were well aware of unofficial bell codes and telephone calls, indeed many years ago I was in a box with the Area Managers Operations manager when the signaller received a very strange bell code which he obviously didn't acknowledge repeated a coupleofbtimes then a call on the circuit phone all obviously trying to pass on the message that he was on the patch somewhere, the initiating signaller got the shock of his life when the AMOps manager answered the circuit phone. The following week he was called in for chat with no tea and biscuits by the local manager for incorrect bell signals

 

[simonw]

Quite recently whilst taking pics at a station, I was invited up into a signal box by the signal man. It made an interesting visit and he was fine about taking pics in the box and out of the Windows. However, I didn't put the pictures on my website, just in case.

 

[Phil.]

In older days the management would deliberately Not visit adjacent boxes as they were well aware of unofficial bell codes and telephone calls, indeed many years ago I was in a box with the Area Managers Operations manager when the signaller received a very strange bell code which he obviously didn't acknowledge repeated a coupleofbtimes then a call on the circuit phone all obviously trying to pass on the message that he was on the patch somewhere, the initiating signaller got the shock of his life when the AMOps manager answered the circuit phone. The following week he was called in for chat with no tea and biscuits by the local manager for incorrect bell signals

Gerard Fiennes tells a lovely tale of entering a 'box to hear 1-2 on the bell. "I'll answer that" he said to the signalman.
"Watch out, the old bugger's, about" came a voice.
"The old bugger speaking" (said with some relish) was the reply.

 

[flappy8]

........... signalling centre with the best part of 15 signallers/SSMs as well as 2 or 3 TDACs for good measure all on the opps floor.

Can you tell me what a TDAC is please?

 

[Sunset route]

Can you tell me what a TDAC is please?

Train Delay Attribution Clerk.

 

[bramling]

Gerard Fiennes tells a lovely tale of entering a 'box to hear 1-2 on the bell. "I'll answer that" he said to the signalman.
"Watch out, the old bugger's, about" came a voice.
"The old bugger speaking" (said with some relish) was the reply.

To be fair, it's a sort of mark of respect that staff have respect for their local management that they ensure they are behaving themselves when some kind of visit is likely.

I'd be more upset if I was inspecting a signal box and the signalman continued doing whatever he shouldn't be doing despite my presence!

 

[DelW]

It's very hard to crash a train as a signaller, I would say it would have to be almost a deliberate act and as for distraction, try working in a multi panel signalling centre with the best part of 15 signallers/SSMs as well as 2 or 3 TDACs for good measure all on the opps floor. It doesn't have to be visitors that causes distractions it can be your colleagues.

I am sure you are speaking from experience which I am not, but the collision in Bad Aibling last year shows that it can happen, although I would agree that a number of cumulative mistakes have to be made.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38206468

 

[bramling]

I am sure you are speaking from experience which I am not, but the collision in Bad Aibling last year shows that it can happen, although I would agree that a number of cumulative mistakes have to be made.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38206468

It doesn't have to be crashing a train. There are endless possibilities where things can go wrong. For example:

1) Grant protection to someone but implement the wrong area of protection for whatever reason.

2) Make a mistake when dealing with an abnormal user at a level crossing.

3) Authorise a train to move under failure conditions when points aren't correctly set.

All of these things are more likely to happen if there's a form of distraction. That doesn't mean anyone in the box is automatically a distraction, and a good signaller should be able to judge when he needs to concentrate and when he can let his guard down a little. But things *can* still go wrong very readily and quickly.

Quintinshill is the ultimate example of how a simple mistake can lead to massive consequences. Sure there are safeguards nowadays which weren't available to the signallers that day, but if there's the slightest loophole in a system then eventually a human somewhere will find it.

 

[Deepgreen]

As a child with my parents chasing steam in the north in the mid-late 1960s, I visited many 'boxes when invited in by friendly signalmen, including Ais Gill, Winning and Scout Green.

Winning (near Newcastle) was especially fine as it had enormously long gates which ran on wheels to take the cantilevered weight. The signalman allowed me to ride on the gates as they were opened and closed, and gave me milk and cake in the 'box!

 

[muddythefish]

G'day everyone,

I recently read an account of two visitors to Blea Moor signal box one night. They'd got themselves lost on Blea Moor and having seen the signal box lit up decided to go and ask for directions. One can only imagine how nervous the signalman must have been on hearing foot steps on the ladder!

Anyways I'm interested to know whether unofficial visits to signal boxes have been a regular occurrence over the last few decades so any stories / accounts would be very welcome!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

One beautiful May morning in 1982 I walked up to Blea Moor box and attracted the attention of the signalman who invited me in for a chat and a cup of tea !

Spent a wonderful 2 hours talking about the rumoured closure of the S & C and railways in general before I left to go back to my car which I'd parked under Ribblehead viaduct.

Traffic was light as the S & C was running down but for a brief few minutes the signals were off in both directions for a north and southbound freights, both hauled by Brush Type 4s if I remember correctly. The southbound freight was a Carlisle - Toton with 60 boxvans.

It was so unusual to see 2 freights passing the box at that time the signalman took a photo with his camera.

Later in the day I blagged my way into Settle Junction box (2 freights went through hauled by EE Type 4s), and tried but failed to get into Hellifield South box.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As a child with my parents chasing steam in the north in the mid-late 1960s, I visited many 'boxes when invited in by friendly signalmen, including Ais Gill, Winning and Scout Green.

Winning (near Newcastle) was especially fine as it had enormously long gates which ran on wheels to take the cantilevered weight. The signalman allowed me to ride on the gates as they were opened and closed, and gave me milk and cake in the 'box!

Me too. Spent many happy hours in the late 1960s and early 1970s in boxes at Johnston and Clarbeston Road in Pembrokeshire. Friendly signalmen always liked to chat. The lines were busy with freight and loco-hauled passengers - Hymeks, Brush Type 4s and EE Type 3s galore. Happy days!

 

[RichmondCommu]

One beautiful May morning in 1982 I walked up to Blea Moor box and attracted the attention of the signalman who invited me in for a chat and a cup of tea !

Spent a wonderful 2 hours talking about the rumoured closure of the S & C and railways in general before I left to go back to my car which I'd parked under Ribblehead viaduct.

Traffic was light as the S & C was running down but for a brief few minutes the signals were off in both directions for a north and southbound freights, both hauled by Brush Type 4s if I remember correctly. The southbound freight was a Carlisle - Toton with 60 boxvans.

It was so unusual to see 2 freights passing the box at that time the signalman took a photo with his camera.

Later in the day I blagged my way into Settle Junction box (2 freights went through hauled by EE Type 4s), and tried but failed to get into Hellifield South box.

Thanks for sharing this, much appreciated! I've walked past the signal box on many occasions over the years but have never been as lucky as your good self. At least the signal box is in good nick and the railway cottage isn't looking too bad either. In terms of signal boxes on the S & C my biggest regret is that I never visited Dent whilst the signal box was still open. Dent station is a lonely old place without it's signal box in my opinion.

 

[nigelbpool]

well my father worked at a signalbox in south wales and i always went down to the box to see him.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Signallers don't officially have any discretion to allow anyone other than on duty staff in the box

One would hope for some flexibility if lost on Blea Moor in the night.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

well my father worked at a signalbox in south wales and i always went down to the box to see him.

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your first post.

 

[The Lad]

Best part of 40 years ago I was doing my (non railway) training and one of the staffs husband was siggie in the branch box which in due course I got to spend a few evenings in and got the hang of the frame. I eventually got to know one of his relief and elevation to the main line box now long gone. Very happy days.

 

[Hartington]

Back in the early 1970s I was a member of several clubs. With them I officially visited Waterloo signal box, one of the Kent coalfield pits and the Air Traffic Centre at West Drayton among other places. In some cases it was simply a case of asking the right people although one visit was through a fellow member who was an employee. In none of the cases was the club a "special interest" group so no "train spotter" or "aircraft spotter" clubs.

Prior to 9/11 if I asked nicely the cabin crew on UK airlines would usually ask the Captain if I could visit the cockpit. If I showed enough interest I could sometimes wangle an invitation to stay or come back for the landing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Prior to 9/11 if I asked nicely the cabin crew on UK airlines would usually ask the Captain if I could visit the cockpit. If I showed enough interest I could sometimes wangle an invitation to stay or come back for the landing.

Prior to 9/11 I managed a ride in the observer's seat on a 767 for the full trip from Heathrow to Charles de Gaulle; gate to gate.

You can still visit the flight deck these days, but it can only be done after the aircraft has been shut down at the destination.

 

[47271]

Prior to 9/11 if I asked nicely the cabin crew on UK airlines would usually ask the Captain if I could visit the cockpit. If I showed enough interest I could sometimes wangle an invitation to stay or come back for the landing.

When I was a kid we were on an AirUK (remember them?) flight between Edinburgh and Gatwick on Children in Need night. They auctioned the third seat in the cockpit of the BAe146 for landing, I think somebody (annoyingly not my parents for me) paid about £80 for it. Changed days...

 

[4141]

In the late 70's I was coming back from a holiday in Algarve, the cabin crew (BCal I think it was) seeing I was a little nervous invited me to visit the flight deck...seeing how relaxed they were (more interested in the football scores and pointing out a South African Airways 747 heading the other way) had the desired effect!
Back on topic, much earlier as an eleven year old I remember visiting the box at Cheltenham South and Leckhampton, trying to pull over the lever and treading on the porter/signalman's foot

 

[wimbledonpete]

A few years ago I sold a railway sign on eBay and it turned out the buyer was a signalman from somewhere in the south of England. I undertook to deliver the sign and he asked me to come to the station. It was lashing with rain, he invited me in, gave me a cup of tea and I spent a very happy half hour in a snug box with bells dinging and levers being pulled and the level crossing going up and down. Highly illegal I'm sure but it was an experience I'll never forget.

 

[LowLevel]

I once managed to visit (among others) Barnetby East and Immingham Reception before the big economic slow down and reduction in coal traffic. It was amazing to watch freight after freight after freight piling along at BE and the Jockos whizzing around at Immingham with the interesting electro pneumatic slide frame they have there. A great privilege.

 

[matchmaker]

In the 1970's I visited many signal boxes across Scotland. You had to watch out for yellow Bedford HA vans, though. If they had a roof rack it was OK as that was S&T. No roof rack = District Inspector