Universal Drivers Keys

[TheEdge]

The vast majority of stuff on the railway is done using the humble T-Key. However I've noticed as a conductor that on newer stock the variety of keys needed increases.

Simple example, almost everything on a 156 needs a T-Key, nothing else but then on the more modern 170 I need a T-Key, CDL key and Southco key. But the drivers key always remains as a constant regardless of what I have to use.

Is the drivers key universal to all stock in the UK? The 170s are the newest things I work on professionally but what about things like 70s, 380s, 390s and 395s? Is it still retained on yet to be delivered stuff like IEP, 68s etc?

 

[headshot119]

Unless Chiltern changed it on refurbishment (Arriva didn't) the 121s will use a different, traditional looking key for the desk.

 

[reb0118]

For the guard, on a class 380, everything is done with a traditional carriage key.

 

[Monty]

For the guard, on a class 380, everything is done with a traditional carriage key.

Same goes for the 458s and 450/444s, though we are issued with the 'L' type carriage now rather than the 'T' type. 455s require a BR1B key in addition to a traditional carriage key.

Edit:- I thought we the 380s they ran without a guard, the driver operating the doors and the train having a ticket examiner for customer service?

 

[the sniper]

For the guard, on a class 380, everything is done with a traditional carriage key.

If you're really lucky Siemens might gift you with the same modification LM's Class 350s got this year. You used to be able to activate the door panels in the cabs using a T-Key, but now you have to use a tiny little key which only switches on the cab panels. The door panels in the carriage are still activated by T-Key though... unless of course you've left the little key switched on in the cab!

 

[Monty]

If you're reallyThe door panels in the carriage are still activated by T-Key though... unless of course you've left the little key switched on in the cab!

We've all been there, anyone who has worked on 350/450/444s know what I'm talking about how much of a doughnut you feel when you have realised what you've done!

 

[Chris999999]

Perhaps that explains why the doors on South West Trains seldom can be opened once the train has stopped. They regularly won't work for 10 seconds and often it can be 20 or 30 seconds.

 

[Monty]

Perhaps that explains why the doors on South West Trains seldom can be opened once the train has stopped. They regularly won't work for 10 seconds and often it can be 20 or 30 seconds.

If the guard has left the key on in a driving cab you'll know about it, as you'll get a constant 'ringing' tone that can be heard throughout the train. The 'delay' before the doors are released is normally because the guard has let himself out first to check the train is fully accommodated on the platform before releasing the doors for passenger use. There are other factors of course but that is the main reason.

 

[reb0118]

Edit:- I thought we the 380s they ran without a guard, the driver operating the doors and the train having a ticket examiner for customer service?

The 380s can be operated in the traditional way or DOO. There are DKS panels in every coach. The Edinburgh to North Berwick, Dunbar, & Glasgow Central via Carstairs services all run with a guard.

 

[Monty]

The 380s can be operated in the traditional way or DOO. There are DKS panels in every coach. The Edinburgh to North Berwick, Dunbar, & Glasgow Central via Carstairs services all run with a guard.

That's surprising, yet comforting to know.

 

[t o m]

I don't know what a standard locomotive key looks like but I have this one which may be of interest. My grandad gave it to me.

 

[Domh245]

I'm assuming that a driver keeps their own key, especially if they are labelled with what appears to be their name and (possibly?) their driver number? If this is the case, what is the possibility of having multiple keys, because I have seen someone post a photo on twitter of a desk full of those type of key. Also, being primarily a user of the tube, they tend to keep a key with a train, and hand over their key to the relieving driver when they change, or at least that is what the ones I have seen seem to do.

 

[evoluzione]

I'm assuming that a driver keeps their own key, especially if they are labelled with what appears to be their name and (possibly?) their driver number? If this is the case, what is the possibility of having multiple keys, because I have seen someone post a photo on twitter of a desk full of those type of key. Also, being primarily a user of the tube, they tend to keep a key with a train, and hand over their key to the relieving driver when they change, or at least that is what the ones I have seen seem to do.

I have numerous keys, one on my key holder, two spares in my bag and a few at home, I've lost a few usually leaving them in 142's But gained a few on other units

If you need to raise the E.B.S. Which needs a key to operate it, you usually can't can't get your key back out so you need to carry spares.

If I'm being relived by a Leeds man at Leeds I leave my key in and take his off him on handover, it's a East thing we don't do it on the West.

Keys are available in the DTM's office if your running low.

 

[bigbaldbruce]

If I'm being relived by a Leeds man then I leave my key in and take his off him on handover, it's a East thing we don't do it on the West.

My usual train home is the 1720 Middlesbrough-Saltburn (1624 ex-Bishop Auckland), and has a crew change at Middlesbrough. Without exception the incoming driver hands their key over to the outgoing on the platform.

 

[455driver]

Everywhere I know the drivers just hand a key over, never heard of taking your key out and the relieving driver having to set the cab up again, seems silly to me!

 

[t o m]

I'm assuming that a driver keeps their own key, especially if they are labelled with what appears to be their name and (possibly?) their driver number? If this is the case, what is the possibility of having multiple keys, because I have seen someone post a photo on twitter of a desk full of those type of key. Also, being primarily a user of the tube, they tend to keep a key with a train, and hand over their key to the relieving driver when they change, or at least that is what the ones I have seen seem to do.

He was given that key when he collected the loco from Brush, he said whenever you picked up a new loco you got a key like that with your name and the loco number on. On the other side of the key is the date it was collected, it's a sort of commemorative thing.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Everywhere I know the drivers just hand a key over, never heard of taking your key out and the relieving driver having to set the cab up again, seems silly to me!

About a decade ago Thameslink had to have a number of driver keys altered because they got stuck when used in the isolating switches in the cab. The altered keys were identified by a small painted section. For Bedford and Blackfriars drivers it was blue, for Brighton it was pink. Some drivers objected to having the pink keys.

 

[LowLevel]

He was given that key when he collected the loco from Brush, he said whenever you picked up a new loco you got a key like that with your name and the loco number on. On the other side of the key is the date it was collected, it's a sort of commemorative thing.

That's probably worth a few quid then! Normal desk keys are ten a penny (not literally, but there are loads of them!).

 

[Wolfie]

About a decade ago Thameslink had to have a number of driver keys altered because they got stuck when used in the isolating switches in the cab. The altered keys were identified by a small painted section. For Bedford and Blackfriars drivers it was blue, for Brighton it was pink. Some drivers objected to having the pink keys.

my bold

I am not entirely surprised by your last sentence. It sounds rather like someone using the detail of something eminently practcal to reinforce a stereotype about the population of a particular location. Had red, orange, green or any other colour been used I doubt you would have heard a dickybird. In most if not all public sector (and a large chunk of the private sector) organisations the person who came up with that colour scheme would have earned themselves Equal ops and diversity refresher training....

 

[underbank]

I am not entirely surprised by your last sentence. It sounds rather like someone using the detail of something eminently practcal to reinforce a stereotype about the population of a particular location. Had red, orange, green or any other colour been used I doubt you would have heard a dickybird. In most if not all public sector (and a large chunk of the private sector) organisations the person who came up with that colour scheme would have earned themselves Equal ops and diversity refresher training....

There will always be people out looking for offence where none was intended. Most normal people won't have even given a second thought about the colour.

Only last week, I was at the receiving end of a feminist who appeared mortally offended that we'd given her a pink file after she saw a mix of blue and pink files on my desk and immediately assumed it denoted sex. Then I had to spend time explaining that pink was for personal files and blue were for limited companies, regardless of the sex of the people involved! Then she got on her high horse about why we shouldn't use blue and pink, so then I had to waste even more time explaining that files only come in a certain number of colours, and that we use the green, buff, red, yellow etc for other types of client/work - and that there simply aren't enough colours available to avoid using blue and pink! Still she wouldn't get off her high horse - what a plonker, and yes, she did work in the public sector where no doubt this kind of thing gets lots of time and attention devoted to it!

 

[Muzer]

Mmm - it wouldn't surprise me if it's a case of "blue and pink paint were the first ones I found in the cupboard" or something...

 

[maniacmartin]

Indeed. Painting a full rainbow would be too much hassle

On a more serious note, was this FCC? If so, given their trains and a lot fo station furniture are all painted in blue and pink, I'd expect there to be lots of those particular colours of paint around.

 

[trainfanatic]

Slightly off topic but still relevant, are signal box door accesskeys still used when closing a box overnight?

I recall the standard key in use during the 50's and 60's a solid lump of metal weighing about a half kilo or so.

The size and weight of it meant you rarely forgot to carry it on you when making your way to open your box!

 

[jopsuk]

Mmm - it wouldn't surprise me if it's a case of "blue and pink paint were the first ones I found in the cupboard" or something...

Yes, but give it 30 seconds thought and you'd have the Bedford and Blackfriars keys in pink and the Brighton ones in blue.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I don't know what a standard locomotive key looks like but I have this one which may be of interest. My grandad gave it to me.

The key for a 67 also acts as the reverser (forward/neutral/reverse) and you could probably kill somebody with it if you hit them. Its a good five inches long and made of brass, though plastic ones do exist.

You can just about make it out in this picture near the power handle, its the rectangular and round thing lying on its side just to the right of the centre of the photograph.

 

[Muzer]

Yes, but give it 30 seconds thought and you'd have the Bedford and Blackfriars keys in pink and the Brighton ones in blue.

Why should a thing like that be given a moment of thought? I didn't even consider it after the keys were mentioned until someone else pointed out the stereotype of Brighton.

To be honest, it's a bit of a pathetic thing to kick up a fuss about. People actively fighting to end the discrimination and stereotyping that (unfortunately) still go on would do better to choose their battles and pick up on clear actual cases of, if not discrimination, at least blatant stereotyping, as opposed to incidents like this that, while I admit could be stereotyping, could just as likely be an unfortunate coincidence with people reading too much into the choice of colours - like the incident with the coloured files mentioned earlier.

 

[Mojo]

Also, being primarily a user of the tube, they tend to keep a key with a train, and hand over their key to the relieving driver when they change, or at least that is what the ones I have seen seem to do.

It depends on the stock. Modern stocks only have one key, an RKL220 (not sure about S Stock and 09 Stock), which the Train Operator keeps with them as a personal issue. You should only have one of these. Had a funny one the other week where someone attempted to book on and thought they'd left their key at home. One of the Duty Managers lent the Train Operator his key, and then later on the Train Operator found his own key at the bottom of his bag. There was a bit of a rush to get the key back off him when he passed through next!

Older stocks like the 73 stock have a control key which is what you'd see the Train Operators hand over to each other. There is another key (the RKL220 on 73 and I think D) which the operator uses to unlock the selector barrel; they would take these keys with them. The 72 stock has a reverser key.

 

[Crossover]

I'm assuming that a driver keeps their own key, especially if they are labelled with what appears to be their name and (possibly?) their driver number? If this is the case, what is the possibility of having multiple keys, because I have seen someone post a photo on twitter of a desk full of those type of key. Also, being primarily a user of the tube, they tend to keep a key with a train, and hand over their key to the relieving driver when they change, or at least that is what the ones I have seen seem to do.

I understand that on some stock - namely Pendolinos being the one I have heard mentioned - that the driver remains keyed in (but signs out on the onboard systems) and takes the key from the relief driver. I am led to believe this is due to a number of systems checks that are undertaken on keying in, and doing it mid-run would potentially delay the train for a few minutes before the train could move

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....On a more serious note, was this FCC?....

Thameslink, before FCC.

 

[33056]

Slightly off topic but still relevant, are signal box door accesskeys still used when closing a box overnight?

I recall the standard key in use during the 50's and 60's a solid lump of metal weighing about a half kilo or so.

The size and weight of it meant you rarely forgot to carry it on you when making your way to open your box!

Going back to the 1980s the standard key for smaller boxes in many areas used to be a yale type one but I am not sure if that is still the case. Most power boxes / signalling centres have some form of electronic entry system now and I doubt whether many of them would ever be unmanned; my local one certainly isn't, not even at Christmas.