Up to 55% fare increase on Cotswold line

[Starmill]

Surely FGW are free to impose an evening peak restriction out of Marylebone if they want, seeing they are the lead operator for the fares?

They can do what they like with the fare from Charlbury and Hanborough to London as this little episode shows, but not from Oxford Parkway (nor an Oxford, Hanborough, Charlbury... you get the picture - London route Via High Wycombe either

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Surely FGW are free to impose an evening peak restriction out of Marylebone if they want, seeing they are the lead operator for the fares?

Genuine question: does this actually happen?

It seems to me that London operators generally respect each others' evening peak restrictions and easements. For example, the 7B code for this Charlbury-Trimley return has faithfully reproduced the not-long-for-this-world Cotswold Line easements, even though it's set by Greater Anglia rather than FGW; and now that FGW are changing their own validities in the evening, 7B is falling into line too.

I know that elsewhere some operators have a habit of trampling roughshod over others' validities (hello, CrossCountry) but I've not yet found a deliberate-looking example of this in the London evening peak. But then I'm far from an expert.

 

[Billy Hicks]

Has anyone else noticed that FGW have actually decreased some of their advance fares for travel after May 17th?

Looking at travel from London to and from Penzance after that date with a 16-25 railcard, fares that were £30.05 (the cheapest Night Riviera advance seated fare that appeared to be available) are now £27.40. Similarly the £15.85 fares are now £15.20, only a few pounds saving but still a welcome one.

 

[jkdd77]

The Thames Rover will also be increasing in price, so regular travellers from the Cotswolds to London will be paying more either way.

 

[maniacmartin]

This story was in page 4 of today's Metro.

PM steps in over rail firm's 87% fare rise

Train companies have been criticised for plans to increase fares next month - with one operator charging 87 per cent more for a ticket.

David Cameron has called for an "urgent review" as First Great Western almost doubles the cost of travelling between London and the Cotswolds - a route that passes through his Witney constituency.

Commuters in Charlbury, the station closest to the prime minsister's home, can currently buy an off-peak ticket to the capital for £33, allowing them to leave after 9.30am and return during the evening peak.

From May 17, the popular Cathedrals Express service will cost £62.40, an 87 per cent rise.

Virgin Trains is also raising fares...

 

[gondukin]

Slightly off topic, I got issued a super offpeak return from Worcester Stations to Salfords (Surrey) last night at £36.95 (with Netowrk Railcard) - instead of the usual £38.60 I usually pay for a return. It appears to be this fare adjusted for the railcard discount: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?...pert=on&flow=0&multi=4&fare=4&rte=803&tkt=SSR
It doesn't show up on any journey planner or on BR Fares with the discount, does anyone know why not? I'd like to get it again

Back on topic, the super-off peak return is available on journey planners from 17th May at the marginally reduced price £35.45. Off peak singles (£28.30) have been bumped up quite significantly though to £34.80. I hope that's not to cover the number of delay repay claims I've been putting in when heading East! Redhill and Earlswood has gone up slightly less, from £28.30 to £32.10. It seems odd that they've introduced a differential on the single ticket price but not the return.

 

[RJ]

Note that you need to use physical stations (e.g. London Paddington) rather than group stations (like London Terminals). I'm sure the latter will come in due course.

Not so sure, I vaguely recall this policy is something to do with Crossrail, though that could be wrong.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Slightly off topic, I got issued a super offpeak return from Worcester Stations to Salfords (Surrey) last night at £36.95 (with Netowrk Railcard) - instead of the usual £38.60 I usually pay for a return. It appears to be this fare adjusted for the railcard discount: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?...pert=on&flow=0&multi=4&fare=4&rte=803&tkt=SSR
It doesn't show up on any journey planner or on BR Fares with the discount, does anyone know why not?

That's a really interesting one - the route printed on the ticket is EVESHAM/STROUD, but this is encoded in the fares database as travel having to go via both Evesham and Kemble. Since Kemble is outside the Network Railcard area, BR Fares (and presumably other journey planners too) won't show the fare. Somebody should really raise this issue with FGW.

 

[RJ]

There are too many different fares available for that flow - are 5 different routes (for walkup fares) really necessary?

 

[Starmill]

I thought it was the case that tickets routed Evesham / Stroud are specifically mentioned as an exception to Network Railcard discounts? They will only offer the discount if you can't travel via Kemble basically?

Travelling via both Evesham and Kemble sounds fun :P
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are too many different fares available for that flow - are 5 different routes (for walkup fares) really necessary?

I agree. ✠LONDON EVESHAM seems particularly redundant...

 

[All Line Rover]

This story was in page 4 of today's Metro.

"An FGW spokesman said the change was to bring the north Cotswolds route into line with its other services."

Perhaps Cameron could ask FGW where passengers can find details of these mysterious new services. I'm not aware of services on the Cotswolds route becoming half-hourly from May.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not comfortable with involvement from Dave. This has happened all over the First Great Western Network - just because the North Cotswolds is very affluent and is the locality of the Prime Minister why do they get special treatment?

It also demonstrates the laughable situation we are in where the government has to ask the train company to be fair on it's customers, rather than having that required of them by limiting what restrictions can be put in place.

 

[Starmill]

There are the £10 singles at any rate! What you had was a good value ticket you could buy whenever and use certain trains. What you now have are good value tickets you can only buy in advance, and only at their discretion, with the added risk of paying twice if you miss the train

Hey suits me though because I have wanted to this line on a summer day for ages, but I really hate the Standard interior of the Great Western HSTs, so now I can get a super-duper cheap £20 First Class ticket on the through train HFD - PAD

Edit: looks like the Hereford 'Great Westn Only' price is £10.50. Are they selling Hereford tickets via Oxford and Worcester with the London Midland connection?

Further edit: some of these Great Malvern services are turbos right - are they really selling Advance First on a turbo? LOL

 

[W-on-Sea]

I've had advance first tickets on turbo services on the North Cotswolds line before (or: more specifically: tickets from Gloucester to Oxford, changing at Worcester Shrub Hill on a Sunday) - not exactly the height of luxury, but they were rather cheap!

 

[route:oxford]

This is a disgrace and an utter scam by FGW.

Over the years they must have taken £Ms off Oxford passengers who have travelled on the 08:51 service to London and returned in the peak on an anytime ticket when they could have sold the Hanborough-Paddington service ticket at almost half the price. (Currently £60 vs £32.20)

Likewise passengers looking to travel out off-peak and return in the peak could have purchased an off peak return Hanborough-Paddington at £25.90.

If this was a bank mis-selling there would be an outcry, a regulator would intervene and the customer would have been due a full refund + interest at 8%.

 

[RJ]

This is a disgrace and an utter scam by FGW.

Over the years they must have taken £Ms off Oxford passengers who have travelled on the 08:51 service to London and returned in the peak on an anytime ticket when they could have sold the Hanborough-Paddington service ticket at almost half the price. (Currently £60 vs £32.20)

Likewise passengers looking to travel out off-peak and return in the peak could have purchased an off peak return Hanborough-Paddington at £25.90.

If this was a bank mis-selling there would be an outcry, a regulator would intervene and the customer would have been due a full refund + interest at 8%.

I don't agree with this. The onus is on passengers to do their own research if they want to complicate ticketing matters for themselves. If people travelling from Oxford are sold a ticket from Oxford, what's the problem? The market rate for that journey is what it is. Your solution would cause severe overcrowding issues, possibly seeing Cotswold passengers crowded off their infrequent services.

For those who are interested in saving money, the resources are out there which allow alternative tickets to be found. I do it myself, but am not outraged on behalf of others who aren't interested in doing that.

Widespread exploitation of fares on lines with an inferior service will see a break of journey restriction slapped on them to prevent it. See Virgin Trains' Off Peak fares from the south east to points beyond Lancaster, Chester and Shrewsbury.

 

[Starmill]

Widespread exploitation of fares on lines with an inferior service will see a break of journey restriction slapped on them to prevent it. See Virgin Trains' Off Peak fares from the south east to points beyond Lancaster, Chester and Shrewsbury.

This is precisely correct.

That said, BoJ restrictions are notoriously difficult to enforce - especially at the likes of Lancaster and so on.

 

[route:oxford]

I don't agree with this. The onus is on passengers to do their own research if they want to complicate ticketing matters for themselves. If people travelling from Oxford are sold a ticket from Oxford, what's the problem? The market rate for that journey is what it is. Your solution would cause severe overcrowding issues, possibly seeing Cotswold passengers crowded off their infrequent services.

Perhaps in the olden days this was the acceptable attitude of a business.

Things have changed though, and a customer can very quickly become a victim.

 

[Starmill]

This is a disgrace and an utter scam by FGW.

I agree with this - but not for the reasons you state. For having such silly Anytime fares / such restricted Off-Peak fares in the first place.

You are however powerless to stop them. The only thing you can do is play them at their own game, like this:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Perhaps in the olden days this was the acceptable attitude of a business.
Things have changed though, and a customer can very quickly become a victim.

BR started all the peak restrictions with market pricing in the 70s.
The ratchet has been tightening ever since, and it has just reached the Cotswold line.
David Cameron should know it is his department's policy (and Labour's) to push fares up to pay for improvements and take the load off the taxpayer.
Before someone says the services haven't improved, I could have sworn NR spent millions upgrading/redoubling the line recently.
I should think the Kemble route will be next.

 

[Unixman]

BR started all the peak restrictions with market pricing in the 70s.
The ratchet has been tightening ever since, and it has just reached the Cotswold line.
David Cameron should know it is his department's policy (and Labour's) to push fares up to pay for improvements and take the load off the taxpayer.
Before someone says the services haven't improved, I could have sworn NR spent millions upgrading/redoubling the line recently.
I should think the Kemble route will be next.

It would be nice if they could finish the job on the Cotswold Line. The two long stretches that remain between Worcester and Oxford are major bottlenecks. Since the redoubling there has been little improvement in either reliability or speed.

Just for comparison, the 16:45 train from Paddington to Worcester in 1910 took 2 hours 10 minutes ( arriving Worcester SH 18:55) which is, I believe, faster than any service of today. Before someone, as they will, points out that the service stopped at far fewer stations in 1910, well, that is precisely the point. The current service reminds me of a slow-stopping train that meanders its way through the lush English countryside....

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Does anyone have the updated validities (i.e. actual NFM chapter-and-verse, not mediated by a booking engine) for the Cotswold Line post-17 May? The usual bible, the very wonderful brfares.com, is currently showing data from 6 January.

There's a few things I'd like to check, in particular for the SVR from Charlbury to Paddington.

 

[greatkingrat]

SVR Charlbury - London Terminals will become restriction code GN

OUTWARD
Not valid for travel on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before the times shown from the following stations:

Hereford 06:42
Ledbury 06:50
Colwall 07:00
Great Malvern 07:05
Malvern Link 07:10
Worcester Foregate Street 07:20
Worcester Shrub Hill 07:25
Pershore 07:35
Evesham 07:40
Honeybourne 07:50
Moreton-In-Marsh 08:00
Kingham 08:10
Shipton 07:30
Ascott-under-Wychwood 07:35
Charlbury 08:20
Finstock 07:40
Combe (Oxon) 07:45
Hanborough 08:25

RETURN
Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London Paddington after 04:29 and before 08:10 and after 16:40 until 18:31
• Reading after 04:29 and before 08:35 and after 17:10 until 19:01

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Thanks.

But - whoa. That's worse than I was expecting. No option to take an off-peak train to Reading and catch an XC from there, or an off-peak to Oxford. That's either disproportionate or badly drafted (or both).

 

[bnm]

Staff have been advised that, until June 14th, they should not charge excesses or issue Penalty Fares to anyone travelling on a newly restricted service with a ticket that would have been valid before 17th May. They should be asked to buy the correct ticket next time.

 

[SickyNicky]

Staff have been advised that, until June 14th, they should not charge excesses or issue Penalty Fares to anyone travelling on a newly restricted service with a ticket that would have been valid before 17th May. They should be asked to buy the correct ticket next time.

Interesting, and sensible. I spoke to the guard on one of these trains last week and she was dreading the response from passengers this morning.

As a matter of interest, I didn't think a penalty fare could be charged for travelling on a ticket that was invalid simply because of a time or route restriction.

 

[bb21]

Interesting, and sensible. I spoke to the guard on one of these trains last week and she was dreading the response from passengers this morning.

As a matter of interest, I didn't think a penalty fare could be charged for travelling on a ticket that was invalid simply because of a time or route restriction.

Correct. Not within the framework of Penalty Fares Regulations. Only an excess fare is applicable.

 

[bnm]

Indeed. It should only be an excess. I was merely reiterating the information given to staff.

 

[greatkingrat]

If FGW had evidence someone was buying an off-peak ticket every day, using a peak train and only paying the excess if challenged, could that be grounds for prosecution?

 

[bb21]

I would say yes, as such a pattern would suggest "intent" to me.

I remotely remember some case law loosely related to that although I am unable to recall it exactly at this moment in time.