I agree the masks won't reduce cases, but by then we will have a significant reduction in cases due to increased levels of immunity.
They sound bonkers to me. No loss there then!
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USA response to Covid-19 and face masks
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And no doubt correlation will equal causation, as it always does when governments can use it to demonstrate that their tactics "worked".
Of course the reverse doesn't apply, and when there is no correlation and no evidence for it making any difference (e.g. masks in shops in this country) they just fall back on 'keep everyone safe' and similar platitudes.
Skimpot flyer
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I think you mean ‘no country can actually demonstrate any beneficial impact’. If people were looking at graphs of case numbers, the counter-argument looks more viable!
That is true! But no Government which has mandated masks is prepared to even consider whether they might actually be increasing the spread. It's become like a religion - the believers just know that it's true, and no evidence (or lack of) will convince them otherwise!
Unless the correlation is in the other direction, in which case "it would have been much worse otherwise".
This guy is obviously not typical of mask activists, and there is clearly some form of mental illness at play. It’s also heartening to see nobody tacitly defending his actions.
That said, his sentiments didn’t come from nowhere and politicians and activists spreading invective about non-mask wearers (even in low risk situations) are culpable to some degree.
It certainly makes me glad the “wear a mask everywhere outside” sentiment hasn’t hit the UK yet, though I feel it may only be a matter of time. The criticism of the Harrods crowds for not wearing masks, while potentially legitimate if people really are that close together, feel like the first moves in that direction.
It comes to something when I think the Republicans are the moderates on a given topic, and the Democrats the loonies. Republicans have, in general, moved to accept masks in certain contexts while Democrats have, in general, become ever more extreme. It's amazing to me that rational people who (rightly) don't let Trump get away with nonsense claims, give Biden a free ride on this topic in insisting on outdoor mask wearing, with wild claims about how many lives it would save, and hypocrisy in the fact that he touches his mask every ten seconds when giving speeches.
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And also seasonality will almost certainly give a massive natural reduction across the spring anyway.
This does smell very much like a case of 'something will happen anyway, but I can persuade people it was my actions that made it happen - aren't I a great leader?'
Sprinter153
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Completely bewildered to see Joe Biden wearing not one but two masks whilst receiving his vaccine this week:
The Grauniad said:
Freightmaster
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I think he's been doing that for a while now - the 'belt and braces' approach!
MARK
Isn’t the first time he has done this, as I pointed out in #17 he has been doing this regularly for months now.
Some virtue signaller posted a picture of himself on Twitter yesterday outside branch of Waitrose wearing two masks. Got a complete roasting in the comments.
Which reminds me of one of my favourite lines from one of my favourite films : 'How can you trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders? The man can't even trust his own pants.'
kristiang85
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Oh yes I saw that too. Also, because he was wearing them with a beard, they were utterly useless (which was pointed out in the comments).
For various reasons the USA has been on the news quite a bit recently but I’ve noticed one thing that seems quite clear; there doesn’t seem to be any attempt at social distancing at all, but those involved seem to all be wearing masks or other pieces of fabric over their faces.
This seems quite common across the spectrum; I have just seen a video of a left wing politician over there on the picket line speaking into a megaphone where herself and all the participants in the picket were all stood closely together. We saw instances during the ceremony yesterday of colleagues who obviously don’t live together holding hands and stood very close together. Meanwhile, it seems over here that politicians, and those on the TV seem to be quite clearly making an effort to stay apart more.
Is there anything to show whether this strategy is any different in terms of the results over what we seem to be doing, with fewer masks but more distancing? There does seem to have been quite a few mass events there recently such as the street parties once the election results were predicted, as well as the break in and ransacking of the Capitol Building
This seems quite common across the spectrum; I have just seen a video of a left wing politician over there on the picket line speaking into a megaphone where herself and all the participants in the picket were all stood closely together. We saw instances during the ceremony yesterday of colleagues who obviously don’t live together holding hands and stood very close together. Meanwhile, it seems over here that politicians, and those on the TV seem to be quite clearly making an effort to stay apart more.
Is there anything to show whether this strategy is any different in terms of the results over what we seem to be doing, with fewer masks but more distancing? There does seem to have been quite a few mass events there recently such as the street parties once the election results were predicted, as well as the break in and ransacking of the Capitol Building
Masks are only intended for situations where social distancing is not possible, and even then their usefulness is not clear.
In the UK we tend to go for an overly cautious approach to "health & safety" type issues, hence the ludicrous situation where masks are mandated in certain situations where social distancing is possible.
Mask mandates are a highly visible part of authoritarianism and the authoritarians very much want to extend mandatory masks, whereas social distancing can cause problems in terms of making some events/venues/activities unviable. There is also an element of people thinking that they are safe when others are forced into wearing masks, and therefore it's fine to abandon social distancing.
In the UK we tend to go for an overly cautious approach to "health & safety" type issues, hence the ludicrous situation where masks are mandated in certain situations where social distancing is possible.
Mask mandates are a highly visible part of authoritarianism and the authoritarians very much want to extend mandatory masks, whereas social distancing can cause problems in terms of making some events/venues/activities unviable. There is also an element of people thinking that they are safe when others are forced into wearing masks, and therefore it's fine to abandon social distancing.
I posted on another thread about having seen Youtube videos filmed in the USA recently, and it looks great. Apart from face nappies (which most people seem to wear on their chin), it looks like you can do pretty much whatever you want, including amazing treats like leaving your home for any reason at all and having contact with your family. The American dream is a real thing!
The rules and regulations per states differ quite significantly; even within states cities and counties have the power to impose their own rules. But by and large it does seem a lot better than here except for the mask extremism which seems from what I’ve seen in pictures even extends to walking down empty streets.
Even within localities that haven’t made masks mandatory, it seems that a decision has been taken by most national chains to mandate face coverings as a condition of entry.
I’m in the US (and have been for the past several weeks, and Mexico before that), and in many states things are absolutely normal. If masks are the price for that (and I absolutely hate them), that’s fine by me. Two months of constant use has certainly made me habituated to them, to the point that I don’t even notice I’m wearing one. When doing extended walking outdoors I don’t wear one, and some of the reactions are almost comical. Many people squeeze/pinch their mask extra tightly while passing, more commonly people walk 5 metres away from you! That’s still a minority though.
I do seriously worry about the people who find them hard to wear being shunned from society, which is what has clearly happened, but the US has never been the most inclusive society; it’s when that attitude leaks over to the UK that I really worry.
I do seriously worry about the people who find them hard to wear being shunned from society, which is what has clearly happened, but the US has never been the most inclusive society; it’s when that attitude leaks over to the UK that I really worry.
And despite the lack of measures, their death rates aren't any worse than many European countries...
kristiang85
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Yes a lot of states were a lot more relaxed about it all, and they haven't exactly been worse off than the locked down states (California vs Florida is particularly interesting; the former probably has the harshest restrictions, and the latter dropped all theirs last summer, yet both follow the same path in terms of the stats).
Unfortunately for them, Biden making the COVID response a federal matter now rather than at state level, so I expect many of the 'freer' states will find themselves under more restrictions very soon (as I understand it; I could be wrong?)
He can only bring in masks in federal buildings and interstate travel, and the like. The states still have considerable latitude on how to conduct their affairs.
kristiang85
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Ah OK thanks; I wasn't too sure on those details.
initiation
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Some parts of the States are definitely populated by mask zeolots. However this latest tweet from the Californian Government is insane.
They are saying people should wear masks in between bites of food at restaurants. The contradiction then saying you should minimise the number of times you take your mask on/off would be hilarious if it wasn't so bad.
They are saying people should wear masks in between bites of food at restaurants. The contradiction then saying you should minimise the number of times you take your mask on/off would be hilarious if it wasn't so bad.
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That’s right up there with the maddest things I’ve seen through all of this.
Less than 6 weeks to go until Biden's mask mandate expires. I trust he won't move the goalposts; if he does it would be political suicide.
The idea that the Americans people are healthier than Swedish people, and this is due to wearing masks, is absolutely hilarious.
The views of Americans on masks are ridiculously polarised. A large segment are convinced masks are the messiah and are the most important way to fight the virus. Sadly this seems to include the President as well as Fauci (who I believe said a few months back that masks are more important than the vaccine).
These people genuinely seem to want masks to become the new normal forever - it's far beyond anything you see in this country. They dismiss anyone who thinks masks have any downsides, even those who think they're necessary short to medium term. It just doesn't even make logical sense - they must have an ulterior motive.
Well they are Americans and over the years they have given the rest of the world a lot to laugh at.
Trump is a typical American plenty to say with little to back it up.
Remember Vietnam, never underestimate the opposition, they did, they lost.
It’s 100% certain that he’ll continue to advise masks. As for whether he continues to mandate them, I think that’s politically problematic either way for him. The pro-restriction lobby generally want anything they view as advisable, to be legally enforceable. I guess we’ll see who he’s more worried about upsetting!
Sadly Biden has proven to be a liar. I have lost respect for Biden.
Pres. Biden extends mask mandate across all public transportation through Sept. 13 - The Points Guy
Many travelers, and the travel industry at large, have called for extenuation of the federal mask mandate, and now they’re getting their wish.
He had said:
Covid: Biden to ask Americans to wear masks for 100 days
The president-elect says universal mask-wearing should bring a "significant reduction" in Covid-19.
www.bbc.co.uk
Mandating of masks in the Summer for a seasonal virus which is on the way out makes absolutely no sense. The virus dissipated naturally last Summer without masks and the resurgence last autumn occurred with masks. The idea that mask mandates make a difference is absurd.
This is about imposing authoritarianism, it's as simple as that.
He doesn't care about being exposed as a liar, that's for sure!
When I wrote this...
...I was too trusting of Biden; I now know he cannot be trusted.
“Liar” is exactly the word. If he made no commitments, and the mask mandate remained in place today, nobody would be commenting. Instead he imposed a deadline of his own volition, ostensibly as an olive branch to the other side, and then ignored it. If something unexpected happened he should point to the data — such as slower than expected vaccine rolloute — and explain why he had to break his promise. Instead the only conclusion to be drawn is that he told a premeditated lie when promising a 100 day mask mandate.
Based on recent interviews, in which he asserts that two vaccinated people indoors should wear a mask as a patriotic act, I am certain that he holds anyone who doesn’t believe in masks in contempt and therefore as fair game to be lied to in order to secure their compliance. OK, except his entire selling point has been about restoring unity. Clearly his definition of unity and compromise is everyone agreeing to what he wants.
Based on recent interviews, in which he asserts that two vaccinated people indoors should wear a mask as a patriotic act, I am certain that he holds anyone who doesn’t believe in masks in contempt and therefore as fair game to be lied to in order to secure their compliance. OK, except his entire selling point has been about restoring unity. Clearly his definition of unity and compromise is everyone agreeing to what he wants.
Freightmaster
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US presidents seem particularly fond of doing U-turns on election promises - remember Bush senior's "watch my lips - no new taxes"?!
MARK
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