Used expired railcard unknowingly - possible prosecution

[JackB]

Hi everyone, hoping to get an advise regarding my case. I received a notice of intent to prosecute because I travelled with an expired railcard. My railcard expired in Oct 2022 and this happened on 2nd week of January 2023.

What happened was I did not know that the railcard option was ticked so it was a discounted ticket that I have purchased on trainline.

The last time I travelled to London on my own was in October and since then we travelled in groups of 3 or 4 so we always got the groupsave discount and have not really checked that the railcard options was ticked when I travelled solo in January to London. This is the first time this happened to me and not in anyway trying to avoid to pay the right amount of fare.

How bad is this as I am very anxious and scared because I have never been in a situation like this before. Just reading the word magistrates court makes me tremble.

Also since I am not a UK national and do not really travel a lot in the UK aside from going Cambridge to London, I am not very familiar with railway rules/law (if that’s what its called).

Right after speaking to the inspector I tried to renew my railcard as well just to make sure this does not happen again but their system was down and kept trying to buy a new railcard several times but it just kept on saying the same thing, see attached picture.

How should I respond to them?

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

Hello!

I have a similar case, with my 16-25 railcard expiring in October also. As the ticket was bought over a year ago I just kinda of forgot and lost track. The railcard still worked on the Trainline app and I didn’t see any prompt that it was invalid or needed updating so I didn’t think twice. I don’t have a physical railcard either where I would see it often, it’s tucked behind about 5 button presses in Trainline’s app settings.

Long story short I’m also a student, studying in London. As all young people I figured as it’s online that like all things purchased within apps it would either prompt me to renew, or simply stop working and I would be notified that way.

I travel on return maybe 2-3 times a week from London to Southampton. The price of the tickets I’ve paid for since then is about £280. The railcard gives a 30% discount so the full price would have been £420. But again during this time I was 100% convinced my railcard is active and paid for.

So it’s now early March. I got stopped yesterday at the turnstiles in Waterloo, and they were checking everyone’s tickets. I thought I have nothing to hide so I immediately and kindly showed my railcard - a big surprise to me that it was in fact NOT VALID.

From there I must admit the experience felt intimidating and immediately incriminating. One officer grabbing my phone and held it until a group of 4 more officers came to join us. One of which then took me through a 15 minute interrogation of data and felt very condescending. I just felt like I was immediately criminalised when it was obvious from my reaction and keenness to show my railcard that I the offence was not intentional.

I also want to add in this thread that the officer warned me not to renew my railcard while there as this would be “like setting your pants on fire”. I want to add this here as I’ve not seen this advice from any other examples in these forums. Can I now renew my railcard since the interrogation is done? I still need a railcard to travel, and I can’t afford to wait without one for potentially another few months or more.

At the end I’d been issued with a prosecution statement - looks like a receipt with a reference number and my details. The officer said that I would receive a letter between 6 weeks and a few months about an intent of prosecution in court, and opportunity to write back an explanation.

I’m very anxious now about how next to approach the situation. Should I wait for the letter before corresponding or enquiring? I completely understand my fault and although I think the app can be misleading (still not sure why an E-railcard can work and show no indication when planning travel that it is invalid or expired).

I want to take full responsibility as the owner of the railcard for not fully understanding this process and therefore committing this offence. Also having the railcard invalid for 4 months even I can understand will be very difficult for an officer to sympathise - especially for my ‘young, male, student’ demographic that I’ve learnt are often prime intentional offenders.

I’d just like some advice if any of you would be so kind about how I can settle this out of court, as a criminal offence as a student is a very scary prospect - and for such a human and genuine mistake!

I’m having a lot of stress about a large settlement fee in excess of £500 (which I’m honestly not sure I can even afford to pay as a student in London), and even worse a criminal conviction of an entirely unintentional mistake.

Hope to hear from you all soon, thank you for taking your time to read through.

Jack

 

[jamiearmley]

Hi.

Generally, they would try to recoup the standard single fare in full, rather than any difference in fares.

The standard single London terminals to Southampton is £52.

Just for info.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello!

I have a similar case, with my 16-25 railcard expiring in October also. As the ticket was bought over a year ago I just kinda of forgot and lost track. The railcard still worked on the Trainline app and I didn’t see any prompt that it was invalid or needed updating so I didn’t think twice. I don’t have a physical railcard either where I would see it often, it’s tucked behind about 5 button presses in Trainline’s app settings.

Long story short I’m also a student, studying in London. As all young people I figured as it’s online that like all things purchased within apps it would either prompt me to renew, or simply stop working and I would be notified that way.

I travel on return maybe 2-3 times a week from London to Southampton. The price of the tickets I’ve paid for since then is about £280. The railcard gives a 30% discount so the full price would have been £420. But again during this time I was 100% convinced my railcard is active and paid for.

So it’s now early March. I got stopped yesterday at the turnstiles in Waterloo, and they were checking everyone’s tickets. I thought I have nothing to hide so I immediately and kindly showed my railcard - a big surprise to me that it was in fact NOT VALID.

From there I must admit the experience felt intimidating and immediately incriminating. One officer grabbing my phone and held it until a group of 4 more officers came to join us. One of which then took me through a 15 minute interrogation of data and felt very condescending. I just felt like I was immediately criminalised when it was obvious from my reaction and keenness to show my railcard that I the offence was not intentional.

I also want to add in this thread that the officer warned me not to renew my railcard while there as this would be “like setting your pants on fire”. I want to add this here as I’ve not seen this advice from any other examples in these forums. Can I now renew my railcard since the interrogation is done? I still need a railcard to travel, and I can’t afford to wait without one for potentially another few months or more.

At the end I’d been issued with a prosecution statement - looks like a receipt with a reference number and my details. The officer said that I would receive a letter between 6 weeks and a few months about an intent of prosecution in court, and opportunity to write back an explanation.

I’m very anxious now about how next to approach the situation. Should I wait for the letter before corresponding or enquiring? I completely understand my fault and although I think the app can be misleading (still not sure why an E-railcard can work and show no indication when planning travel that it is invalid or expired).

I want to take full responsibility as the owner of the railcard for not fully understanding this process and therefore committing this offence. Also having the railcard invalid for 4 months even I can understand will be very difficult for an officer to sympathise - especially for my ‘young, male, student’ demographic that I’ve learnt are often prime intentional offenders.

I’d just like some advice if any of you would be so kind about how I can settle this out of court, as a criminal offence as a student is a very scary prospect - and for such a human and genuine mistake!

I’m having a lot of stress about a large settlement fee in excess of £500 (which I’m honestly not sure I can even afford to pay as a student in London), and even worse a criminal conviction of an entirely unintentional mistake.

Hope to hear from you all soon, thank you for taking your time to read through.

Jack

Hi - welcome - plenty of advice on here ref people who have overlooked renewing Railcards - but in general you will now have to wait to here from them in writing in the post (so you need to be able to check post at the address you gave them - eg if that is term time address, potentially in the holidays - do not ignore any post at all) - when you get it - head back here for advice on how to respond.

There is no point enquiring with them until you get the letter

but some specifics

I also want to add in this thread that the officer warned me not to renew my railcard while there as this would be “like setting your pants on fire”. I want to add this here as I’ve not seen this advice from any other examples in these forums. Can I now renew my railcard since the interrogation is done? I still need a railcard to travel, and I can’t afford to wait without one for potentially another few months or more.

- That an interesting expression on the part of the rail staff - as I would not immediately liken this to setting fire to one's underwear* BUT - the general advice on here is yes, renew your Railcard ASAP both so that you can travel at a discount legitimately - AND so that when you reply to SWR you can show that when the matter came to your attention you immediately did the right thing to prevent any further problems - it supports the line of argument that this was unintentional, which is the argument you will need to make to them so that they don't think you are a habitual fare dodger.

- bear in mind they will, I am afraid, regard the tickets you had as totally invalid - they will probably expect you to now pay the full undiscounted anytime fare London to Southampton (this is £104 Anytime return or £52 Anytime Single). You will need to prepare to have that money for each journey you made after the Railcard expired, so try to work out how much this will be and see if you can access it (borrow from family? University hardship Fund? etc). You need to try and list out the dates you have taken the train since the Railcard expired, but applied a Railcard discount, in error, to the ticket purchased.

Head back here for advice as and when you need it, but all you can really do now is prepare for when you hear from the railway, and in the mean time try not to worry too much.

* I would personally consider the consequences of this oversight less serious than having skin burns in that area.

 

[spag23]

The core issue (as we have seen many times before) is that the onus is on the passenger to ensure they have the valid (and in date) railcard against which they claim the discount.
There is no obligation for the rail companies to check the validity of a railcard during the purchasing process. Some send renewal reminders, but you can't rely on it. For some reason, they seem content with charging passengers hundreds of pounds in penalty fares, rather than simply setting up a verification of a railcard's validity, and collecting just the £30 renewal fee.
(The feasibility of this verification has been discussed at length on this forum)

 

[Haywain]

I’d just like some advice if any of you would be so kind about how I can settle this out of court,

Judging by other threads on the forum, SWR are quite likely to invite you to attend an interview before offering a settlement, as this seems to be their modus operandi when dealing with cases of repeated fare evasion. In view of this you will be well advised to seek legal advice sooner rather than later. As a student your educational establishment may offer some help, as will the students union. You may also have free legal assistance available through a household insurance policy. If none of these help many solicitors will offer some initial free legal advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

From there I must admit the experience felt intimidating and immediately incriminating. One officer grabbing my phone and held it until a group of 4 more officers came to join us. One of which then took me through a 15 minute interrogation of data and felt very condescending. I just felt like I was immediately criminalised when it was obvious from my reaction and keenness to show my railcard that I the offence was not intentional.

A couple of things. You were criminalised because it's a criminal offence to travel without a valid ticket and/or railcard. It does sound extreme but that is how the law is, however we may wish it was not. This offence under the Railway Bylaws:

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas (1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

as well as

17. Compulsory Ticket Areas (1) No person shall enter a compulsory ticket area on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket.

are strict liability meaning no intent may be proven. There is a more serious offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 5 (3):

(3)If any person—

(a)Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof

which requires intent.

Secondly, and I know it's too late for this - they aren't allowed to take your phone or interrogate it. You must show them your ticket and give them your name and address by law but they do not have a right to take your phone nor to go through it, or any ticket purchasing app on it. It's too late now as I assume you didn't object to this?

Were you placed under caution and asked questions? Did you view any contemporaneous notes the officer made, and sign at the bottom?

I also want to add in this thread that the officer warned me not to renew my railcard while there as this would be “like setting your pants on fire”.

I can't see how that could be a reasonable thing to say. Renewing immediately after being stopped is a responsible thing to do.

As it stands now you should wait to be contacted. SWR may invite you to a voluntary interview which it would be unwise to attend without seeking legal advice first and which you will need to think hard about whether it is in your interests to attend.

 

[Ediswan]

I can't see how that could be a reasonable thing to say. Renewing immediately after being stopped is a responsible thing to do.

I took the warning not to immediately renew the railcard as poorly commuincated advice not to do so and then claim it was valid for the journey in question.

 

[spag23]

In a different world, the OP's offence might be regarded as accidentally avoiding the £7.50 cost of renewing the Railcard for the "missing" 3 months.
After all, why would anyone run the risk of incurring hundreds of pounds in full rate fares (on top of what they've already paid) and the risk of a criminal record, all for the sake of saving of a mere £7.50.
It doesn't make sense.
But unfortunately the rail companies don't have to see it like that, as the OP has learned. Some unkind observers may even think that the TOCs prefer to reap the windfall benefits of un-noticed Railcard expiries; an income stream they could eliminate by simply asking bookers to enter their Card's expiry date.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

I took the warning not to immediately renew the railcard as poorly commuincated advice not to do so and then claim it was valid for the journey in question.

Likewise. Presumably, people renewing their railcards when they see an inspector or an operating barrier is a thing, as it is with buying tickets.

(I assume that it’s just as futile, but I can understand the inspector who dealt with the OP not wanting the waters to be potentially muddied by the OP renewing their railcard there and then. Even if the way he expressed himself was a bit much, and renewing then was never going to get the OP into any additional trouble.)

 

[JackB]

Hi - welcome - plenty of advice on here ref people who have overlooked renewing Railcards - but in general you will now have to wait to here from them in writing in the post (so you need to be able to check post at the address you gave them - eg if that is term time address, potentially in the holidays - do not ignore any post at all) - when you get it - head back here for advice on how to respond.

There is no point enquiring with them until you get the letter

but some specifics



- That an interesting expression on the part of the rail staff - as I would not immediately liken this to setting fire to one's underwear* BUT - the general advice on here is yes, renew your Railcard ASAP both so that you can travel at a discount legitimately - AND so that when you reply to SWR you can show that when the matter came to your attention you immediately did the right thing to prevent any further problems - it supports the line of argument that this was unintentional, which is the argument you will need to make to them so that they don't think you are a habitual fare dodger.

- bear in mind they will, I am afraid, regard the tickets you had as totally invalid - they will probably expect you to now pay the full undiscounted anytime fare London to Southampton (this is £104 Anytime return or £52 Anytime Single). You will need to prepare to have that money for each journey you made after the Railcard expired, so try to work out how much this will be and see if you can access it (borrow from family? University hardship Fund? etc). You need to try and list out the dates you have taken the train since the Railcard expired, but applied a Railcard discount, in error, to the ticket purchased.

Head back here for advice as and when you need it, but all you can really do now is prepare for when you hear from the railway, and in the mean time try not to worry too much.

* I would personally consider the consequences of this oversight less serious than having skin burns in that area.

Thank you first and foremost for your quick and educational reply.
Can I ask why they will charge single prices at an anytime rate? When the tickets I bought, as a poor student, were at very odd peak times and single time use?

I travel back from London maybe 2-3 times a month with the exception of holidays to see my partner. With those journeys being two ways (return). That would mean I’m now having to pay roughly £300 per month for tickets I received at an accidentally 30% reduction on top of the money I’d already paid for the ‘invalid tickets’. This just feels too easily done, and not enough is done to make this mistake obvious before it is made. Especially as an E-card tucked behind menus in the trainline app.

I find it difficult to understand that they could charge a first time ‘offender’ nearly £1200 before admin fees over a mistake that cost £10 in proportion to the annual railcard fee of £30.

Reading all of this and learning the processes it does astound me how these byelaws were passed without more human and rational clauses.

Thank you all to everyone that has replied so quickly, it is really helping me to understand my unfortunate situation!

 

[AdamWW]

In a different world, the OP's offence might be regarded as accidentally avoiding the £7.50 cost of renewing the Railcard for the "missing" 3 months.
After all, why would anyone run the risk of incurring hundreds of pounds in full rate fares (on top of what they've already paid) and the risk of a criminal record, all for the sake of saving of a mere £7.50.
It doesn't make sense.

I've never understood that one either.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I didn’t see any prompt that it was invalid or needed updating so I didn’t think twice.

The main "Railcard" app is really good for that, when it's expired it turns grey instead of the usual colour and clearly shows "Expired".

 

[AlterEgo]

I find it difficult to understand that they could charge a first time ‘offender’ nearly £1200 before admin fees over a mistake that cost £10 in proportion to the annual railcard fee of £30.

Reading all of this and learning the processes it does astound me how these byelaws were passed without more human and rational clauses.

Well, the Regulation of Railways Act is from 1889, which is...quite a long time ago. In any case there's good cause for the law here to be reformed but it would be at a tangent to the discussion and it's better to focus on the help you need right now.

 

[30907]

In a different world, the OP's offence might be regarded as accidentally avoiding the £7.50 cost of renewing the Railcard for the "missing" 3 months.
After all, why would anyone run the risk of incurring hundreds of pounds in full rate fares (on top of what they've already paid) and the risk of a criminal record, all for the sake of saving of a mere £7.50.

But of course the actual saving from claiming Railcard discount is not £10 but considerably more - the OP reckons £140 for their occasional journeys, so £35 a month.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We are seeing lots of cases like yours at the moment and it can be stressful and intimidating when you are stopped and questioned by revenue protection.

As for what will happen next I expect you to receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor is that you have tarvelled without a railcard many times. It may well be that they will only ask you about the specific incident when you were caught but it is possible that they will search your ticket purchasing history. You will need to be careful how you reply to the letter; you should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either. We have seen instances where people have been invited to an intervuew to establish what has happened, I would not worry about this at this stage as it should be quite easy for the train company to establish the facts about what has happened.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

To answer your question about buying another railcard you absolutely can buy another railcard and I suggest you do so as soon as possible.

 

[AdamWW]

But of course the actual saving from claiming Railcard discount is not £10 but considerably more - the OP reckons £140 for their occasional journeys, so £35 a month.

But if the railcard had been renewed, the railway would have happily allowed that saving.

I realise that the railway doesn't see it that way and I suspect neither do most people on this forum. But my view is that someone who forgets to renew their railcard has cost the railway the price of the railcard. No more.

Though I appreciate it's perfectly appropriate to levy a penalty/fine otherwise there's no incentive not to see what you can get away with.

And if someone isn't entitled to purchase a railcard for the discount they applied, then that's a different story.

 

[Haywain]

But if the railcard had been renewed, the railway would have happily allowed that saving.

But it wasn't, and that's a condition of making the saving.

 

[WesternLancer]

Can I ask why they will charge single prices at an anytime rate? When the tickets I bought, as a poor student, were at very odd peak times and single time use?

I believe that this is because the railway regards the 'Anytime' fare as the normal ticket (I think it may have been once, eg back in the 1960s, well it's equivalent then whatever the formal name would be) - and any other type of fare eg Off Peak / Season Ticket/ etc etc as one or other form of discounted ticket - then they have Railcard discounts on top...you get the drift - UK rail fares are complex.....

So when they seek a settlement (knowing they have the fall back of a criminal prosecution ability so not like a parking ticket type of thing) they can ask for the full monty, knowing they are in a strong position, seemingly not caring too much if this is the best way to encourage their customers to eg buy a car and never travel by train again if they can avoid it....

It's possible that if you can persuade SWR to believe that this was all an oversight (and this has to be your overriding objective now - use Hadders' advice on the tack to take) they may agree to settle for less than those full fares - so how you write to them will be key - hence the offer of help here with your draft - you could work it out and actually offer the the sum you would have paid for off peak tickets on the days travelled and see what they say for example eg "I beleive the sums I did not pay in error were £x this being the difference between the tickets I mistakenly bought thinking I had a valid Railcard and the relevant undiscounted fare at the time I travelled o the dates in question and I would be happy to pay this sum, as I have never had any intention of travelling without a valid ticket"

So by way of preparation start listing out for yourself every date and if possible time you travelled by trains after the Railcard expiry and list the relevant fares for the journeys and prices. If you are unsure how to get that info ppl on here can help point you to the likely fares listed on the website BRfares.com if you need help.

The problem is that there are lots of fare evaders (and soem end up on here) that opt to biy tickets at railcard discounts but don't actually ever have a railcard - thinkign that saving the £30ish quid on the Railcard is somethign they can 'get away with'. You've got to persuade SWR you are not that sort of person...

Funnily enough whenever I go through the barriers at Southampton Central (which is not that often I admit) they are set to reject my ticket due to the Railcard discount I have - and make me show the ticket and Railcard to the barrier attendant - which had that happened to you soon after your Railcard expired it would have prevented you getting into this problem in the first place.

 

[BRX]

I feel sorry for anyone caught out by this - so easily done, and easily preventable too when tickets are bought digitally. The TOCs should be completely ashamed of themselves for pursuing huge sums of money in these cases. Especially because those using railcards are less likely to be able to afford such payments. Perhaps these forums could help gather together people who this has happened to, with the aim of doing things like writing to MPs and getting the law changed to something more proportionate.

 

[furlong]

In a criminal court after conviction, the basis for compensation would be expected to be amount needed to put the company back into the position it would have been in if the crime had not happened. Normally this would be the difference in fares as the courts would not normally expect companies to profit from pursuing a criminal. We have seen train companies (including SWR if I remember correctly) indeed sometimes only ask for the fare difference, or the fare for the ticketless portion of the journey, to settle out-of-court. Separately, and additionally, a contract is formed when you travel and the train companies regularly interpret the terms of this contract as entitling them to charge an Anytime single fare retrospectively but the legal basis for that being Anytime remains unclear to me (buried in the depths of historic case law?) and we don't seem to hear of the train companies pursuing this option in the civil courts. The National Rail Conditions of Travel 9.2 merely summarises unspecified other authorities and 9.2.3 and 9.2.1 anyway exclude each other. Specific railcard T&Cs may provide authority to charge a new single fare rather than the difference, but that isn't necessarily Anytime ('full price for the single fare applicable').

In the situation that a criminal court was somehow persuaded that the amount to pay for a new railcard retrospectively was sufficient to put the train company back into the position it would have been in had there been no crime, as I understand things, the train company would still be able to invite a civil court to order additional fares to be paid retrospectively based on their contractual entitlement.

 

[island]

I find it difficult to understand that they could charge a first time ‘offender’ nearly £1200 before admin fees over a mistake that cost £10 in proportion to the annual railcard fee of £30.

There has to be a deterrent to ticketless travel as otherwise people would "pay only when challenged".

 

[AdamWW]

There has to be a deterrent to ticketless travel as otherwise people would "pay only when challenged".

That is reasonable.

I think most people here on this forum think that it's also reasonable for that deterrent to be wildly out of proportion to the amount of money the railway has actually lost (the railcard renewal fee), and for there to be no distinction between someone with an expired railcard and otherwise valid tickets and someone who had no intention to pay for tickets at all.

Personally I can't see how this can be justified and I have every sympathy for anyone in that situation.

Also, if - appears to be the case - the railcard was held in the trainline App, I can't see why it couldn't and didn't offer a warning when buying tickets with the railcard.

 

[Doubleplus]

There has to be a deterrent to ticketless travel as otherwise people would "pay only when challenged".

But a Railcard (for those eligible to use one) costs £30 a year. Anyone travelling with a recently expired one is almost certainly making a mistake rather than actively trying to defraud the railway.

I‘ve long agreed with the general sentiments that I’ve seen others mention in this thread - why is it not possible to have a common sense “make it right” policy for cases like these, where any irregularity is just cleared up by a retrospective rail card purchase, at normal cost, covering the backdated forgotten months, and providing fresh validity for the remainder of the year? The passenger is dealt with fairly, and the railway is put back in the position which it should have been in. Nobody loses.

 

[BRX]

There has to be a deterrent to ticketless travel as otherwise people would "pay only when challenged".

The deterrent should be proportionate though, especially when we are talking about unintentionally travelling without a valid ticket.

There are lots of more sensible ways this could be dealt with. For example, if caught travelling with a railcard that's expired within the past 12 months, something like (say) a fixed fine of 4x the railcard cost. If someone is using a railcard regularly, then it's pretty unlikely that they'd go a whole year without being asked to show it. So it's very unlikely that it would ever be worth trying to evade it deliberately.

£1200 is the kind of amount that might deter people from using public transport at all - because it's so easy for an honest mistake to be extremely expensive. Surely we don't want that kind of deterrent.

 

[Doubleplus]

Also, if - appears to be the case - the railcard was held in the trainline App, I can't see why it couldn't and didn't offer a warning when buying tickets with the railcard.

Trainline has work to do here, especially if they wish to continue partnering with their railway company fraud detection colleagues by mining their database for innocent irregularities like this. Neither the railway nor the Trainline should be able to profit from their sale of invalid tickets and turning a blind eye to how they could easily prevent that.

SWR’s Tap2Go smart card system, for example, allows you to add a railcard to your pay-as-you-go ”tap in tap out” system, and all you have to do once a year is provide a photo or screenshot of your railcard with its number. Someone (presumably manually) verifies that entitlement, then adds it to your account so that it is automatically applied whenever valid. Can’t use it at the wrong time, can’t use it after it has expired. No problems.

 

[BRX]

If one of these cases went to court, would the train company be required to convince the jury that there was an intention to travel without a valid ticket? Or do railway byelaws somehow over-ride such tests of reasonableness and innocent until proven guilty?

 

[AlterEgo]

If one of these cases went to court, would the train company be required to convince the jury that there was an intention to travel without a valid ticket? Or do railway byelaws somehow over-ride such tests of reasonableness and innocent until proven guilty?

Bylaw offences for travelling without a ticket are strict liability. They are prosecuted in the magistrates court, so no jury.

 

[island]

If one of these cases went to court, would the train company be required to convince the jury that there was an intention to travel without a valid ticket? Or do railway byelaws somehow over-ride such tests of reasonableness and innocent until proven guilty?

Railway byelaws require that the prosecution prove the person is guilty and that they joined a train without a valid ticket. It is not required to prove that the person intended to travel without a ticket.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Even worse with a 3-year railcard. Years ago when my wife already had a Senior Railcard, and had it on her Oyster card, I queried one day when the Oyster fares had not been discounted. I called TfL who told me the Railcard on the Oyster had expired. The dear lady, without looking at the card, denied this vehemently. Next time we were in London, with Railcard discounted tickets in hand to go to Durham, we asked the TfL person at Kings Cross to reinstate the Railcard on the Oyster. That was when it was revealed that the card had indeed expired. Hasty trip to the booking office for a new card. Before boarding the train!

 

[Llanigraham]

If one of these cases went to court, would the train company be required to convince the jury that there was an intention to travel without a valid ticket? Or do railway byelaws somehow over-ride such tests of reasonableness and innocent until proven guilty?

There wouldn't be a Judge and Jury as cases at this level are heard in the Magistrates Court.