Using 5-10 zip oyster card

[B2468]

My son will soon be 5, and I'm trying to understand the rules for using a 5-10 zip card in London, which seem a bit contradictory/confusing.

Since he's 5, he won't be travelling by himself, so:
- despite the website and ts&C's saying that he needs to tap, if he's traveling with me on a bus he just walks on (and we don't even need the physical card, since he's clearly under 10) - is that correct? And if he taps the system will assume he isn't accompanied and charge the child rate?
- if he travels with his grandparents who have a bus pass that allows free travel (they live outside London so don't get a freedom pass) does he need to pay? The website says a child is free with a fare-paying adult - is a over-60 holder fare-paying for £0, or does he need to pay in that case?
- is the above any different for the tube?
- for rail/Thameslink, AIUI it's free travel with the zip card even if not accompanied, so if he taps in/out then he won't be charged at all and it's simplest to do that without having to think if we are traveling in the zone that allows accompanied children for free or not (https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/d...eas-without-oyster-adult-accompanying-map.pdf)

 

[Benjwri]

My son will soon be 5, and I'm trying to understand the rules for using a 5-10 zip card in London, which seem a bit contradictory/confusing.

Since he's 5, he won't be travelling by himself, so:
- despite the website and ts&C's saying that he needs to tap, if he's traveling with me on a bus he just walks on (and we don't even need the physical card, since he's clearly under 10) - is that correct? And if he taps the system will assume he isn't accompanied and charge the child rate?
- if he travels with his grandparents who have a bus pass that allows free travel (they live outside London so don't get a freedom pass) does he need to pay? The website says a child is free with a fare-paying adult - is a over-60 holder fare-paying for £0, or does he need to pay in that case?
- is the above any different for the tube?
- for rail/Thameslink, AIUI it's free travel with the zip card even if not accompanied, so if he taps in/out then he won't be charged at all and it's simplest to do that without having to think if we are traveling in the zone that allows accompanied children for free or not (https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/d...eas-without-oyster-adult-accompanying-map.pdf)

If you're getting him an Oyster Zip the easiest thing to do is just always tap. Any route on that map that is green or blue on that map will be free if he taps. As far as I am aware there aren't any cases where he could travel for free with an adult but not on a zip card.
To answer the specific points:
- If he is visibly under 10 he could just walk on, accompanied by an adult or not. If he taps the rate for a bus on a 5-10 zip card is £0, he would not be charged. If he taps he will not be charged anything on a bus
- If someone is travelling for free they cannot have children accompanying for free. However under 10s do not need to be accompanied on London Buses for free travel, and if he taps his oyster zip he will not be charged.
- No, travel with an adult would need the adult to be fare paying, but with an oyster zip tube travel is free, so he may as will tap in and out, he will not be charged anything and it would save getting gateline attendants letting him in/out.
- Yes, as with the tube and bus travel for under 10s, this is free on an oyster zip.

The easiest answer is just to always tap. With an Oyster 5-10 zip if he taps travel will always be free on the Tube, DLR, Trams and London Buses, regardless of if he is accompanied. On National Rail travel will be free if he taps anywhere on the map you linked which is coloured green or blue. If he travels in areas which are red there will be a charge at child fare for that small bit, and tapping is still the cheapest option.

 

[Somewhere]

And just to warn you, if the Zip Card goes into a minus figure, it won't let you travel for free on a free journey until the card has been topped up. And not all journeys you think will be free, will be free, such as where a journey might have involved National Rail (even if you only used TfL services)

My son will soon be 5, and I'm trying to understand the rules for using a 5-10 zip card in London, which seem a bit contradictory/confusing.

TfL have managed to turn what was a simple and easy to understand fare structure into something even staff don't always understand

 

[Hadders]

My son will soon be 5, and I'm trying to understand the rules for using a 5-10 zip card in London, which seem a bit contradictory/confusing.

Since he's 5, he won't be travelling by himself, so:
- despite the website and ts&C's saying that he needs to tap, if he's traveling with me on a bus he just walks on (and we don't even need the physical card, since he's clearly under 10) - is that correct? And if he taps the system will assume he isn't accompanied and charge the child rate?
- if he travels with his grandparents who have a bus pass that allows free travel (they live outside London so don't get a freedom pass) does he need to pay? The website says a child is free with a fare-paying adult - is a over-60 holder fare-paying for £0, or does he need to pay in that case?
- is the above any different for the tube?
- for rail/Thameslink, AIUI it's free travel with the zip card even if not accompanied, so if he taps in/out then he won't be charged at all and it's simplest to do that without having to think if we are traveling in the zone that allows accompanied children for free or not (https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/d...eas-without-oyster-adult-accompanying-map.pdf)

The best thing is to get children used to tapping in and out on each journey, it gets them used to it for when they have to do it as an adult. Most young children think it's great to be able to tap in and out.

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
TfL have managed to turn what was a simple and easy to understand fare structure into something even staff don't always understand

The underlying issue is not really TfL's fault but the wider point that there remains a separate fare structure for National Rail journeys in Greater London. For this to change would require action on the part of central government. So don't hold your breath!

 

[Ralph Ayres]

If someone is travelling for free they cannot have children accompanying for free.

That wasn't the original intention. There was some overthinking when the wording was last updated, to address concerns that just referring to travelling with an adult could be misinterpreted to mean that the adult also didn't need to have any form of travel document. Being peripherally involved I did point out that "fare-paying adult" could be interpreted in various ways (Freedom Pass holders for instance do have their fares paid indirectly) but the wording stayed. Child fares are anyway so relatively low - as is the number of children involved - that the potential revenue loss is likely to be of little significance to TfL, certainly for instance compared to the amount of free travel made on 60+ Passes.

 

[Benjwri]

That wasn't the original intention. There was some overthinking when the wording was last updated, to address concerns that just referring to travelling with an adult could be misinterpreted to mean that the adult also didn't need to have any form of travel document. Being peripherally involved I did point out that "fare-paying adult" could be interpreted in various ways (Freedom Pass holders for instance do have their fares paid indirectly) but the wording stayed. Child fares are anyway so relatively low - as is the number of children involved - that the potential revenue loss is likely to be of little significance to TfL, certainly for instance compared to the amount of free travel made on 60+ Passes.

Interesting, I know someone who has run into issues over this exact wording and issue, the adult travelling on a freedom pass was told the children had to pay at the gate line.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Interesting, I know someone who has run into issues over this exact wording and issue, the adult travelling on a freedom pass was told the children had to pay at the gate line.

At an LU station?

 

[Benjwri]

At an LU station?

Yes, if I remember correctly Bank, but could be wrong.

 

[B2468]

Ah, thanks. It's definitely confusing!

Tapping definitely is easier - I assumed it was still the child rate, rather than £0.

 

[MikeWh]

Ah, thanks. It's definitely confusing!

Tapping definitely is easier - I assumed it was still the child rate, rather than £0.

Almost all travel with a 5-10zip Oyster card is free, certainly within zones 1-9. Many NR services require you to touch in/out to avail the free fare. I agree that it's a good idea to get them used to using the card properly, and many kids feel grown up when doing so, which they love.

 

[talldave]

The best thing is to get children used to tapping in and out on each journey, it gets them used to it for when they have to do it as an adult. Most young children think it's great to be able to tap in and out.

Totally agree.

When we got my son's card, I didn't even realise it had pay as you go capability! Adding credit and going on the cable car over the Thames is still on our to do list!

Ignore all the TfL waffle about applying from a different email address to one you use already for your own Oyster. Same address works fine.