Using "the Key" on southern rail train

[DrewPeacock]

Hi there, I just got my new key card in the post. Just wanting to know if I need anything else when using it for the train from east grinstead to london victoria.

Is the ticket man who checks our tickets able to scan it to know I actually paid for the journey?

Sorry if it sounds dumb, but I am only used to using normal paper tickets.

 

[tsr]

You will need to load a ticket onto it unless you have it preloaded with a season ticket by whichever bit of the company has been chosen to do such things this week (customer services et al). Onboard staff will carry a small and slightly hideous grey scanner called a Revenue Inspection Device (RID) which, if it works (they mostly do now), will scan key cards, Oyster cards, contactless cards and other things. RIDs have little screens displaying a surprising amount of stuff, including the date your ticket is valid until, origin/destination, rudimentary peak restrictions, expired tickets and so on. In terms of onboard staff, East Grinstead services have conductors and quite a few are also now getting targeted patrols by RNOs (Rail Neighbourhood Officers) and revenue teams.

 

[DrewPeacock]

Ok I see, thanks for your response. So after purchasing a ticket online and adding it to the card. It will work right away at the ticket gate without having to do anything else?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Ok I see, thanks for your response. So after purchasing a ticket online and adding it to the card. It will work right away at the ticket gate without having to do anything else?

You might have to allow a few hours for the ticket to become "live". The Key cards on the buses you have to wait about 3 hours before the ticket machines will recognize a new ticket. It should say on the site, how long you'll need to wait before a new ticket becomes "live".

 

[James H]

You might have to allow a few hours for the ticket to become "live". The Key cards on the buses you have to wait about 3 hours before the ticket machines will recognize a new ticket. It should say on the site, how long you'll need to wait before a new ticket becomes "live".

How ridiculous - this is supposed to be progress?

Thank goodness you don't have to wait three hours between buying a paper ticket and using it.

 

[MikeWh]

How ridiculous - this is supposed to be progress?

Thank goodness you don't have to wait three hours between buying a paper ticket and using it.

If you buy from a trainline powered site you might have to wait two hours.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are there any Southern guards on here - how often do your portable ticket machines update - including ticket on Key cards?

 

[Stats]

How ridiculous - this is supposed to be progress?

Thank goodness you don't have to wait three hours between buying a paper ticket and using it.

There's no difference between buying a paper ticket and a smart ticket. A smart ticket will be available for uploading immediately if bought at a TVM, just like a paper ticket, and within 2 hours (usually available sooner) if bought online, just like a paper ticket.
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Are there any Southern guards on here - how often do your portable ticket machines update - including ticket on Key cards?

I don't get the question. The ticket is held on the card and uploaded from the validators on the ticket gates or a standalone validator if there are no ticket gates.

 

[yorkie]

Is the ticket man who checks our tickets able to scan it to know I actually paid for the journey?

If they are carrying the appropriate reader, yes.

(If they are not, that's not your problem!)

 

[button_boxer]

The way smart card tickets work, the card has a memory chip that can store some number of tickets on the card itself. When you buy at a TVM the machine loads the ticket directly into the card's memory. When you buy online what happens is that a message is sent to the station where your journey starts saying that card number X has bought ticket Y, but these messages are sent in batches, not necessarily instantly.

When you touch in at the starting validator it will first look to see if there is already an appropriate ticket in the card's memory (e.g. one you loaded at a TVM). If so you get the green light, if not the validator then looks up the card number in its list of "pending" tickets, if it finds a suitable ticket you've bought online then it loads that into the card's memory and gives you the green light.

So with a TVM ticket there's no delay, but with an online ticket the message has to have reached the starting station validator before you touch in, in order for it to be able to find and load the ticket onto your card.

Inspectors on board just use machines that show what is in the card memory, they don't have a link to the online sales list, so you have to have touched in to load the ticket onto your card before the inspector can see it.

 

[JaJaWa]

You'd really think a better solution would have been implemented in 2015.

 

[LexyBoy]

The way smart card tickets work, the card has a memory chip that can store some number of tickets on the card itself. When you buy at a TVM the machine loads the ticket directly into the card's memory. When you buy online what happens is that a message is sent to the station where your journey starts saying that card number X has bought ticket Y, but these messages are sent in batches, not necessarily instantly.

When you touch in at the starting validator it will first look to see if there is already an appropriate ticket in the card's memory (e.g. one you loaded at a TVM). If so you get the green light, if not the validator then looks up the card number in its list of "pending" tickets, if it finds a suitable ticket you've bought online then it loads that into the card's memory and gives you the green light.

Sounds like a great way to prevent people starting short or using split tickets.

I'd hope (but not expect) that it's a bit smarter than that. Say I have a Redhill-London Season, buy a Redhill-Brighton return online and enter the station at Redhill - if it works as you describe it would give a green light as I have a valid ticket (the season), not load the ticket I need, then I get fined for not having a ticket when I get to Brighton...
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You'd really think a better solution would have been implemented in 2015.

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Can a Key card issued by one of Go-Ahead's bus companies be used on Southern (and vice versa)?

 

[Stats]

Can a Key card issued by one of Go-Ahead's bus companies be used on Southern (and vice versa)?

You can use GTR Key loaded with Plusbus, or for a fixed day fare with the KeyGo PAYG function, on Go Ahead buses in the Crawley and Brighton areas. Bus Keys cannot be used on rail services yet. Go Ahead plan to make Key cards interoperable between train and bus. They'll need to fix a major flaw in the bus Key cards in that it doesn't free up the slot for a different ticket once the ticket has been used.

 

[JaJaWa]

Pretty sure you can't even use Keys between their bus operations, let alone trains.

 

[paul1609]

You can use a Brighton and Hove Key on Metrobus and also certain Compass travel services in the brighton Area.