Vaccine pass regulations in England

[NorthKent1989]

The concept of a vaccine pass is illogical, as vaccinated individuals are just as likely to be carrying the Coronavirus and be able to spread it. It was disgraceful of the Labour party to have supported the proposals debated yesterday, which otherwise would not have been passed. Only a very recent negative test would be useful in this context.

Just one more nail in the coffin for Labour, there’s so many nails in this coffin they’re running out room for anymore

 

[DustyBin]

The criteria are, as usual, utterly arbitrary. Why is a nightclub any higher risk than a pub for example? How does a football stadium with 10,000 seats present such an increased degree of risk over a stadium with 9,999 seats that the former justifies these measures and the latter can be a free-for-all?

Clearly it's only being applied to a limited number of places for now, to make it difficult for anyone to argue it's unwarranted. And then just as in other countries - and parts of the UK - it will in due course become mandatory across more and more of daily life "to help fight the virus".


Anyone who thinks that alternative will remain available (for free or at all) is delusional, I'm afraid. It's just a proviso that's being put in to make it palatable enough to get it over the line.

The reason for its eventual removal will almost certainly be one or more from the following bingo sheet:

1. "It's too expensive. You should have to pay for tests yourself if you're unvaccinated."
2. "The tests are too unreliable/don't detect the X variant"
3. "People can submit false negatives"
4. "There's no way of telling whose sample it is"

We're crossing the Rubicon here. Once this is introduced it's difficult to see the circumstances under which it'll ever be removed, let alone have its scope reduced.


Of course. How else would you get across the message "it's almost impossible for us to detect this offence so for anyone we catch, we'll "offer" them a FPN far larger than the fine they'd get if they took it to court. That'll put them off!"

William Hague's opinion piece in today's Times is very revealing:

Quite apart from the selective use of facts (and out of date data), the argument effectively seems to be "it's immoral to force people to get vaccinated ... but it's perfectly fine to make daily life so difficult they have no real choice".

That's an absurdly inconsistent argument if you ask me - and as recent data shows, the current round of Covid vaccines' efficiency peaks quite soon after the administration of a given dose. So is Hague (and others like him) seriously suggesting we will need to be vaccinated every 3-6 months, and show vaccine passports "proving" we have complied with the latest diktat, forever?

And if so, for what? To get the vaccination rate up by maybe 5%, at best? Is that seriously worth throwing away bodily autonomy for?

That's the road that most of continental Europe has gone down but it's a very sinister path. Before Covid, I'd have said we are better than that here. Sadly it's clear we are not. We are going down exactly same path, just a little later than them, and based on exactly the same flawed arguments.

Great post. It’s blindingly obvious that this is just the beginning of a new way of life, we’re being gently eased into it but it’s happening.

 

[westv]

Please show some compassion for people who struggle to have the jab due to disabilities, anxiety etc

Didn't you know? Everybody who doesn't get jabbed must surely be an anti vaxxer.

 

[island]

Nice to see people who are pro segregation out themselves, by the way the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission

But it considerably reduces it.

 

[NorthKent1989]

But it considerably reduces it.

Yet cases sky rocketed in Scotland with the passports and now two jabs isn’t enough so they’re redundant

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Yet cases sky rocketed in Scotland with the passports and now two jabs isn’t enough so they’re redundant

Your first point is incorrect - case rates have been relatively stable in Scotland since the start of October (and consistently lower than any other part of the UK) . Scottish vaccine passports were introduced on 1st October (not that I think they had any noticeable impact on case rates nor vaccination take up)

 

[Eyersey468]

This is my view too.

I disagree with these passports because I see them as an invasion of privacy and I see them as coercing people into undergoing medical treatment that they do not want.

But if I was an MP, I wouldn't have voted against them for those reasons. I would have voted against them because they are simply a waste of time and effort.

I agrer

 

[Jonny]

Just one more nail in the coffin for Labour, there’s so many nails in this coffin they’re running out room for anymore

They have to be careful that they don't look like the comment on left wing, right wing, same animal holds true; especially when they actively support measures rather than abstain.

 

[jumble]

Oh, give it a rest. All it means is showing someone a barcode now and then. Some other countries have indeed implemented it for non-essential shops, and the sky hasn't fallen in.

I don't really see what the difference is with being prove you are over 18 to drink in a public place, or needing to have a driving license to drive.

I think the main point of it is to make the lives of the non-vaccinated so difficult that they go and get jabbed.

I don't remember the last time I had to show anyone my driving license to be allowed to drive in this country but I think it is about 15 years
The police/government kindly assume that I am entitled to drive if I am in my car and don't ask me to prove it unless they suspect otherwise but is diametrically the opposite case with covid passports.
Driving a car does not come with "Ihre papirer bitte"

 

[Kite159]

Just one more nail in the coffin for Labour, there’s so many nails in this coffin they’re running out room for anymore

I guess the issue had they voted against introducing vaccine passports (which are pointless in my eyes) it wouldn't look good considering the Welsh Labour government introduced them in Wales. Why would they vote something down for England which they have supported in Wales (and I believe the Welsh passports need showing in more places than they do in England at the moment).

 

[21C101]

One also only needs to look at how many 15-17 year olds borrow friends’ driving licenses or proof of age cards to get into clubs (answer: most of them that want to go clubbing!).

Isn't this whole scheme the equivalent of an honesty box in an unstaffed station with the barriers open given that you do the lateral flow test at home and just report the result to get the app showing you as clear (assuming you have even actually done the test not noted the serial number and binned it).

I don't condone such actions anymore than I co done not putting your fare in the honesty box but I would be surprised to find more than a button and a few 1p and 2p coins in the honesty box.

 

[MikeWM]

Isn't this whole scheme the equivalent of an honesty box in an unstaffed station with the barriers open given that you do the lateral flow test at home and just report the result (assuming you have even actually done the test not noted the serial number and binned it).

Well, yes, because the point isn't about stopping the spread of a virus, it is to get you used to the behaviour change of having to seek permission from the government.

Consider your example, but that it always used to be free to ride on that line. There would be too big an outrage if they introduced fares and enforced them immediately, as people have riden on that line for 50 years or more for free, so instead they've introduced fares but, with a nudge and a wink, given a simple way around it, so many who would protest or boycott will use the get-out instead, and for others the fares are pretty cheap anyway so it only seems fair to pay something.

Then when enough people have got used to it, they'll remove the honesty box and install a ticket machine and gates instead, and they'll justify it by saying 'well, everyone *ought* to have been putting the right fare in the honesty box, but a few bad apples weren't, so - reluctantly - we're going to have to start enforcing it properly.' And the people who have paid the fares will blame those who didn't put the right amount in the honesty box, rather than the people who started charging fares in the first place.

And then they'll raise the fares too.

A fairly trivial example of boiling a frog.