Vaccine passport disaster in Scotland

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haggishunter

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But that would not immediately become infectious, even if it did cause them to become infected.

The bigger issue with LFTs is the unacceptably high rate of false positive and negative results.
The Sky News report is simply wrong according to info given to sporting organisations - what is under consideration is a negative LFT as an alternative to proof of full vaccination. It could mean wider scope to the covid cert scheme, but not exclude those who are unvaccinated by providing an alternative option. This is preferable in many ways to a pure vaccine passport scheme, but still presents significant logistical and technological challenges for businesses should the scope be expanded. Not least actually getting suitable hardware in place at affordable prices given ongoing supply issues.

LFTs have very low false positives unless tampered with and abused - they are designed to be lower in sensitivity (which does mean a risk of false negative) in order to ensure high specificity (which means if an LFT is positive it is VERY VERY likely you have covid and are capable of transmitting it). There is a bit of an issue because of the lab that mucked up many PCR tests giving an erroneous impression of false positive LFTs.

It's certainly true that people like yourself are statistically much more likely to benefit from lockdowns, while deprived groups are much more likely to suffer from lockdowns.

I'm going to pick you up on this because that is exceptionally presumptuous. The industry we work in and around hasn't traded in its highly seasonal and weather dependent core business since mid March 2020, and a significant proportion of our income derives from events which have not happened in the past 20 months either, while our advertising revenue has also been clobbered, so I'm at a loss as to how myself or Winterhighland has benefited from lockdowns.
 
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yorkie

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I'm going to pick you up on this because that is exceptionally presumptuous. The industry we work in and around hasn't traded in its highly seasonal and weather dependent core business since mid March 2020, and a significant proportion of our income derives from events which have not happened in the past 20 months either, while our advertising revenue has also been clobbered, so I'm at a loss as to how myself or Winterhighland has benefited from lockdowns.
You miss the point; even if you have not benefited from lockdowns, you won't have suffered in a way that many deprived / poorer people have.
 

bramling

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You miss the point; even if you have not benefited from lockdowns, you won't have suffered in a way that many deprived / poorer people have.

I wonder how many pennies are now starting to drop that we are all now paying for this in the form of some of the longer term consequences, be they negative changes to how society functions (for example not being able to see a GP), tax rises, or simply the high inflation which we’re now seeing all around us.

Let’s hope that England at least can keep up a reasonably sensible setup going forward. It seems Europe is starting to slip back towards a re-run of last year, which is quite flabbergasting considering vaccines now exist.

The more this continues the more Europe will be dragged towards a nasty depression. This is on top of the unpleasant authoritarian tendencies we’re seeing in places.

Much as I’m not keen on our government at the moment and our prime minister in particular, we *need* the current course to continue here.
 

brad465

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Breaking on Twitter that Sturgeon is not going to expand the scheme.
Now got a BBC article:


Scotland's vaccine passport system will not be extended to more venues, Nicola Sturgeon has announced.
The first minister had been considering expanding the scheme to cover cinemas, theatres and other hospitality venues.
But she told MSPs that it would not be proportionate to do so, with case numbers having fallen slightly.
People will be allowed to present a negative test rather than proof of two jabs to enter venues that are already covered by the scheme from 6 December.
These include nightclubs and large events such as some football matches and concerts.
Ms Sturgeon said people should take a lateral flow test before socialising with others over the festive period, saying this was a "vitally important" step in minimising the spread of the virus.

Good news of course, but very surprising from her.
 

Scotrail12

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Seemed fairly obvious that she wasn't going to extend it. I knew this time a month ago that she'd be up lecturing about COVID last Tuesday to give her something to do post COP but it wouldn't lead to anything with England being basically back to normal.
 

Class800

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But will she said she's been stopped from expanding it, so here's a load more restrictions? It's sort of what she implied before she would do if she was stopped from expanding it
 

Cdd89

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Makes sense to me — if you extend it, then you don’t have any more ‘political’ levers to pull* if things get worse and you end up doing desperate things like the takeaways through a hatch.

* NB: the levers may not be attached to anything!
 

MikeWM

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A rare bit of good news from Scotland!

Interesting that a testing alternative is going to be added too. I do continue to wonder if 'vaccine passports' will eventually drift to being 'test passports'.
 

Red Onion

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A rare bit of good news from Scotland!

Interesting that a testing alternative is going to be added too. I do continue to wonder if 'vaccine passports' will eventually drift to being 'test passports'.

I’m delighted at the testing alternative, as the scheme for getting medical exemption is beyond a nightmare!
 

brad465

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Also interesting to hear Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar come out in criticism, accusing Sturgeon of being seen to be doing something and saying there's no evidence that vaccine uptake increased and/or transmission dropped because of them. I imagine the UK wide Labour party wouldn't say this, but at the same time no vaccine passport plan exists in England right now to support/criticise, and in Wales as Labour is in charge they're obviously not going to criticise it.
 

Kite159

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Also interesting to hear Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar come out in criticism, accusing Sturgeon of being seen to be doing something and saying there's no evidence that vaccine uptake increased and/or transmission dropped because of them. I imagine the UK wide Labour party wouldn't say this, but at the same time no vaccine passport plan exists in England right now to support/criticise, and in Wales as Labour is in charge they're obviously not going to criticise it.

Labours policy is to criticise any policies as either "not doing enough" or "going to far" and how they will do better without explaining what they will actually do if they were in power (other than having us all locked down for evermore until cases reach zero)
 

takno

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Also interesting to hear Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar come out in criticism, accusing Sturgeon of being seen to be doing something and saying there's no evidence that vaccine uptake increased and/or transmission dropped because of them. I imagine the UK wide Labour party wouldn't say this, but at the same time no vaccine passport plan exists in England right now to support/criticise, and in Wales as Labour is in charge they're obviously not going to criticise it.
Sarwar and Scottish Labour have been consistent throughout on vaccine passports. In the face of Starmer's constant nonsense it's the only thing that's kept me in the party. Frankly irrespective of independence for the country, I think Scottish Labour would benefit from being fully independent of the London party
 

Berliner

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The NHS Covid Pass is now working after disruption following the announcement it would become mandatory for some venues in England from next week.
Users reported being unable to download their domestic or travel passes from the NHS app and website following Boris Johnson's confirmation of Plan B curbs.
People trying to access their pass on the app were met with a message asking them to try again later.
NHS Digital said the root cause of the issues had been identified.
Vaccine passport disaster for England. Seems the launch there wasn't smooth either but it has mysteriously gone unreported here.

Thought it only fair this was shared too as it should also be up for debate now that every part of the UK will have vaccine passports.
 
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danm14

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Vaccine passport disaster for England. Seems the launch there wasn't smooth either but it has mysteriously gone unreported here.

Thought it only fair this was shared too as it should also be up for debate now that every part of the UK will have vaccine passports.
The worst thing about this is there is absolutely zero reason for this to happen. In every other country the certificate is cached in the app, but England doesn't do this, the certificate has to be downloaded each time you access it.

And this is for no reason other than "you can't be trusted, so when you test positive we have to revoke your vaccine passport temporarily in case you'd be tempted to use it"
 

WelshBluebird

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And this is for no reason other than "you can't be trusted, so when you test positive we have to revoke your vaccine passport temporarily in case you'd be tempted to use it"
Does that actually happen?
Given you can download a pdf version (or even get a paper version) I doubt such a measure would at all be useful!
 

danm14

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Does that actually happen?
Given you can download a pdf version (or even get a paper version) I doubt such a measure would at all be useful!
Apparently so - once you report a positive test it disappears from the app for 11 days (although there have been reports of it taking up to 15 days to come back - and people missing flights in the interim as they didn't have a paper/PDF version).

I don't live in England, and in any case have never tested positive, so I can't confirm for certain.
 

devon_metro

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Simply download the French "TousAntiCovid" app, scan a valid QR code and voila, vaccine passport stored on your phone. It works in Scotland and at borders. It's far less personally intrusive than any of the UK apps since it doesn't require you to log in.
 

Cdd89

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You can also save your vaccine passport to your Wallet (on iOS devices - I suspect Android is similar). Although ridiculously, that too expires.

(Does a QR imported into the French app expire?)
 

danm14

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This is not correct. Scanning a QR code into the TousAntiCovid app, or indeed any other app, does not change it in any way.

The app may not display an expiry date, nor may it show any error after the expiry date passes. It may even continue to work in France, if their validation app (like Ireland's) is programmed to ignore expiry dates.

The underlying QR code will still contain the expiry date, and it will not work with a validation app that checks the expiry date, such as any of the UK ones.
 

kez19

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island

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This is not correct. Scanning a QR code into the TousAntiCovid app, or indeed any other app, does not change it in any way.

The app may not display an expiry date, nor may it show any error after the expiry date passes. It may even continue to work in France, if their validation app (like Ireland's) is programmed to ignore expiry dates.

The underlying QR code will still contain the expiry date, and it will not work with a validation app that checks the expiry date, such as any of the UK ones.
You are right; however, it is still useful to scan a code into TousAntiCovid as the code is then stored on the device rather than depending on an online connection to display in real time, as is the case with the NHS app.
 

devon_metro

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This is not correct. Scanning a QR code into the TousAntiCovid app, or indeed any other app, does not change it in any way.

The app may not display an expiry date, nor may it show any error after the expiry date passes. It may even continue to work in France, if their validation app (like Ireland's) is programmed to ignore expiry dates.

The underlying QR code will still contain the expiry date, and it will not work with a validation app that checks the expiry date, such as any of the UK ones.

I scanned the QR code from the paper QR code from the letter sent to me with vaccination status. Are you telling me the piece of paper has an expiry within the QR code :s
 

WelshBluebird

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Interestingly it looks like on Android phones you can now save your covid pass from the app to Google Pay. This stores it locally on your phone with the qr code and expiry date, no need for network connection and it gives you the option to add a quick shortcut to your home screen too.
 
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