Validity of Merseytravel Concessionary passes?

[Watershed]

re e tickets, yes you can buy an e ticket that covers travel on Merseyrail, however my understanding is that you have to take the eticket into a manned station and get a paper ticket issued to you.

Failure to do this has led to fines being issued.

See link below from 2021 Liverpool Business News about a person with a valid e ticket being fined becuase they had not exchanged the e ticket for a paper ticket ahead of starting the journey on Merseyrail.

Story about person fined for not having a paper ticket when they did have an e ticket for the journey

There is no mechanism for exchanging e-tickets for paper tickets, as far as I'm aware. Where they're issued and their permitted routes include Merseyrail, they're valid. It's as simple as that.

However, that article doesn't seem to indicate that the passenger held an e-ticket. Instead, it seems to be yet another example of someone buying a ticket that needed to be collected using ToD, but not collecting it prior to travel, in the years before Merseyrail offered any facilities for ToD collection.

Retailers should have been showing prominent warnings that you would have to travel to another station to collect your ticket. I can't comment on what Trainline would have showed at the time, but it's no longer an issue that's particularly relevant anymore now that ToD bookings can be collected at Merseyrail ticket offices.

 

[185143]

I bought a Merseyrail Daysaver online today for the first time, as Hooton station booking office was not working ("pay at destination").
It was delivered as an e-ticket (PDF), which I showed at Liverpool Central without problems.
However, it didn't work the automatic gates and had to be shown at the manual gate (no scan made).

You had a better experience than me last time I used a Saveaway then!

It was issued on bog roll onboard a TPE service which had come from Sheffield, and presumably had a Sheffield based conductor onboard as it said issued at Sheffield. I was firstly told that my "MTRAV SAVEAWAY ALL AREAS" ticket was only valid in Sheffield, then told that it "must only be valid on TPE here then" when I said I'd bought it on one of their trains to Liverpool.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Basic, basic stuff. The staff member only reluctantly let me travel with it at all. Best bit was, I got on the train and was met with Byelaw Enforcement a few stops down the line doing their patrols.

"Tickets please"

"Cheers la"

 

[JBuchananGB]

We seem to have drifted off-topic somewhat, although discussion of validity of MerseyRail Daysavers, and MerseyTravel Saveaways does fringe on the validity of MerseyTravel concessionary passes. As a holder of a Senior Railcard and a Lancashire CC ENCTS bus pass I seldom use either (Daysaver or Saveaway) and am not entitled to a MerseyTravel pass. On the only occasion I used a Saveaway it was loaded onto a Walrus card, and when inspected by a member of staff on a TPE service from Lime Street to Newton-Le-Willows, he took one look at the Walrus card and moved swiftly on! When travelling on Merseyrail I usually use my Senior Railcard to buy an Off-Peak Day Return to a Northern Rail destination in the Liverpool area.

 

[L401CJF]

You had a better experience than me last time I used a Saveaway then!

It was issued on bog roll onboard a TPE service which had come from Sheffield, and presumably had a Sheffield based conductor onboard as it said issued at Sheffield. I was firstly told that my "MTRAV SAVEAWAY ALL AREAS" ticket was only valid in Sheffield, then told that it "must only be valid on TPE here then" when I said I'd bought it on one of their trains to Liverpool.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Basic, basic stuff. The staff member only reluctantly let me travel with it at all. Best bit was, I got on the train and was met with Byelaw Enforcement a few stops down the line doing their patrols.

"Tickets please"

"Cheers la"

A lot of bus drivers won't accept any rail ticket issue Saveaway - not only the bog roll ones but the old card style ones too. I have raised this with Merseytravel numerous times but still no improvement.

 

[urbophile]

For a long time Halton borough was outside the Liverpool City Region/Merseyside. Now that it is in the former but not I think the latter, are Merseyside passes valid there? (Of course they are on buses because it is in England - just)

 

[Rr123]

There is no requirement to do this whatsoever. If a ticket is issued as an e-ticket or m-ticket and is otherwise valid on the train you are traveling on then it has to be accepted.

Merseyrail cannot unilaterally make up their own rules.

Hi Hadders is there a way to privately message you?

 

[Hadders]

Hi Hadders is there a way to privately message you?

You can send private messages (called conversations on this forum) once you have posted 5 times.

 

[Statto]

For a long time Halton borough was outside the Liverpool City Region/Merseyside. Now that it is in the former but not I think the latter, are Merseyside passes valid there? (Of course they are on buses because it is in England - just)

No Merseytravel passes are not valid in Halton.

Guess Merseytravel passes are valid on trains to Chester, Ellesmere Port & Ormskirk, in spite of those stations being out of the Merseyside area, because Merseyrail operates to there.

Here is the Merseytravel boundary map

https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/Content/Bus/Route%20Maps/Zones-Map-June-18.pdf

 

[scrapy]

No Merseytravel passes are not valid in Halton.

Not entirely true, Hough Green is in Halton, yet falls within the Merseytravel area for rail journeys. For bus journeys it falls outside the Merseytravel area and national rules apply.

 

[Rr123]

You can send private messages (called conversations on this forum) once you have posted 5 times.

Ah I appreciate that, any chance you’re able to message me? Bit of a situation and possibly after end result I can make a detailed post possibly will help alot of others

 

[L401CJF]

Ah I appreciate that, any chance you’re able to message me? Bit of a situation and possibly after end result I can make a detailed post possibly will help alot of others

If you require advice regarding a ticketing dispute/prosecution, you are best starting your own thread under the Disputes and Prosecutions section where the forum experts will be able to give the best advice. Advice regarding disputes/prosecution isn't allowed via personal messages on this forum I don't think.

 

[urbophile]

No Merseytravel passes are not valid in Halton.

Strange anomaly if it is part of the city region. Are there any plans to integrate it properly?

 

[Watershed]

Ah I appreciate that, any chance you’re able to message me? Bit of a situation and possibly after end result I can make a detailed post possibly will help alot of others

It would probably be best for you to create your own thread so that everyone can contribute. In most instances we don't encourage private advice to be given via PM.

 

[scrapy]

Strange anomaly if it is part of the city region. Are there any plans to integrate it properly?

Halton is part of the Liverpool City Region, however is not part of Merseyside. It's a unitary authority within the ceremonial county of Cheshire. Services such as police and fire services are provided by Cheshire not Merseyside.

If it were to be integrated into Merseytravel for ticketing etc I would have though there would be a considerable levy on council tax payers to subsidise this and it would have limited benefit. Only Runcorn and Widnes stations would likely be added to the network (Runcorn East is the only other station that falls within Halton, but there would be nowhere else to travel to on that route within Merseytravel area).

 

[Statto]

Strange anomaly if it is part of the city region. Are there any plans to integrate it properly?

I suspect it's because Halton council does not contribute any funds to Merseytravel, to allow Merseytavel passes to be valid in Widnes & Runcorn, regardless of it's Liverpool City Region status.

 

[urbophile]

I suspect it's because Halton council does not contribute any funds to Merseytravel, to allow Merseytavel passes to be valid in Widnes & Runcorn, regardless of it's Liverpool City Region status.

Probably. It could also be because about half the trains from Runcorn are run by Arriva who probably don't want to encourage any more local customers on long distance trains. But I'd have thought Widnes passengers might appreciate it.

 

[RHolmes]

Probably. It could also be because about half the trains from Runcorn are run by Arriva who probably don't want to encourage any more local customers on long distance trains. But I'd have thought Widnes passengers might appreciate it.

None of the train services in Runcorn are ran by Arriva

Not entirely true, Hough Green is in Halton, yet falls within the Merseytravel area for rail journeys. For bus journeys it falls outside the Merseytravel area and national rules apply.

Not quite.
The first bus stop in Hough Green on Netherley Road (just after the farms and served by the 79C) is a Merseytravel one, and all MPTE ticketing is valid to/from this point.

But beyond the junction where Hough Green Rd joins Liverpool road, these are all ‘Halton’ bus stops.

 

[urbophile]

None of the train services in Runcorn are ran by Arriva

Brain malfunction. I meant Avanti.