Validity via Rugby

[Joey Beauchamp]

Hello,

In trying to work out the most cost effective and flexible ticket from Long Buckby to Wembley on Saturday, I've come across a strange anomaly.

It seems that an off peak day return from Long Buckby to Milton Keynes is valid via Rugby, but tickets to destinations further South are only valid via Northampton. This doesn't make much sense to me as if the route via Rugby is quicker to MK, then it would undoubtedly be quicker to Euston as well.

Can anyone explain why this might be?

It's going to cost more to split at Milton Keynes, but I think I might do it anyway as I'm taking my 5 year old and if I can get him in bed 15 minutes earlier, it'll be well worth it!

Another question: Why is an off peak day return from MK to Harlesden more expensive than one from MK to London Terminals? Could I buy the cheaper ticket and still go to Harlesden on the Overground? I'd think it would count as a break of journey, although if I then didn't continue to Euston later in the day I guess it's officially stopping short?

 

[yorkie]

The only problem with these anomalies is that, by advertising them, there is a possibility (in some cases, at least) that the relevant pricing managers will introduce rules/restrictions or price increases to prevent the cheaper fares being used for journeys which are priced at a premium.

If you follow the itinerary stated on your ticket, or accompanying documentation, you will be fine.

 

[Haywain]

Why is an off peak day return from MK to Harlesden more expensive than one from MK to London Terminals?

It might be based on an assumption that you'd travel via London to make that journey.

Can anyone explain why this might be?

Because travelling via Rugby passes the Routeing Guide's NFM 64 fares check for a journey to Milton Keynes but not to Euston.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

Cheers, I'll get an MK return and a travelcard from there. It's the most expensive way to do it, but it means I have the flexibility to catch the Avanti to Rugby or head into London if that's quicker.

 

[Haywain]

Cheers, I'll get an MK return and a travelcard from there. It's the most expensive way to do it, but it means I have the flexibility to catch the Avanti to Rugby or head into London if that's quicker.

You will have to make sure that you travel on trains that call at MK.

 

[Hadders]

Cheers, I'll get an MK return and a travelcard from there. It's the most expensive way to do it, but it means I have the flexibility to catch the Avanti to Rugby or head into London if that's quicker.

You'll need an 'Any Permitted' Travelcard from Milton Keynes rather than the cheaper 'London Northwestern only' one.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You'll need an 'Any Permitted' Travelcard from Milton Keynes rather than the cheaper 'London Northwestern only' one.

Would an Off Peak Family Travelcard from Milton Keynes Central to London Zones 1-6 (route ".") be suitable here?

 

[Hadders]

Would an Off Peak Family Travelcard from Milton Keynes Central to London Zones 1-6 (route ".") be suitable here?

It's debatable as Avanti aren't listed as accepting the Family Travelcard

Off-Peak Family Travelcard | National Rail

Looking for Off-Peak Family Travelcard? A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Operator​

• Greater Anglia
• c2c
• Chiltern Railways
• Gatwick Express
• Great Western Railway
• London Northwestern Railway
• West Midlands Railway
• Southern
• Thameslink

 

[Haywain]

Would an Off Peak Family Travelcard from Milton Keynes Central to London Zones 1-6 (route ".") be suitable here?

It could be, subject to pricing.

It's debatable as Avanti aren't listed as accepting the Family Travelcard

Much as they might prefer not to there is nothing that allows them not to accept it. The route does not rule out any operator and there is no additional restriction caused by a discount being applied.

 

[Hadders]

Much as they might prefer not to there is nothing that allows them not to accept it. The route does not rule out any operator and there is no additional restriction caused by a discount being applied.

I agree it should be valid but it'll be like Groupsave on EMR. There's nothing on the ticket to say the ticket isn't valid on Avanti but they might try to claim they don't accept the discount type.

 

[Haywain]

I agree it should be valid but it'll be like Groupsave on EMR. There's nothing on the ticket to say the ticket isn't valid on Avanti but they might try to claim they don't accept the discount type.

Groupsave (the normal version) is barred by the additional restriction imposed by the discount. There is no such discount applied to Family Travelcard, it is just priced differently.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

How do you get a family travelcard to come up on ticketing sites? I've never seen one as an option before.

 

[MrJeeves]

How do you get a family travelcard to come up on ticketing sites? I've never seen one as an option before.

Family Travelcards aren't available from all locations, but simply adding the right combination of adults and children as needed should make them show on booking sites. Sometimes GroupSave works out cheaper than a Family Travelcard, though, so it does depend.

 

[dosbod stuey]

The only problem with these anomalies is that, by advertising them, there is a possibility (in some cases, at least) that the relevant pricing managers will introduce rules/restrictions or price increases to prevent the cheaper fares being used for journeys which are priced at a premium.

If you follow the itinerary stated on your ticket, or accompanying documentation, you will be fine.

But is that any way to run a nationally important industry? Sunlight is the best disinfectant, etc.

It reminds me of 20 years ago when slot/fruit machines had in-built hidden cheats. Mug punters would lose out every time while those in-the-know would be winning a night on the beer...

 

[yorkie]

But is that any way to run a nationally important industry? Sunlight is the best disinfectant, etc.

If anyone has any proposals, feel free to post them in a new thread!

It reminds me of 20 years ago when slot/fruit machines had in-built hidden cheats. Mug punters would lose out every time while those in-the-know would be winning a night on the beer...

The 'solution' that the company would have deemed acceptable would be for everyone to lose out.

This isn't the same thing, as it's not 'cheating' (I appreciate you weren't suggesting that!) however the outcome could be the same.

In other words, companies don't generally mind people who make non-premium journeys using premium routes, but what they don't like is when people who are making a premium route and the company would otherwise deem to be willing to pay the premium fare, find ways to pay a non-premium fare.

The aviation industry is even more extreme than the railways, but the difference there is that they can often (but not always) either prevent it, or at least deter it.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

So we went via Rugby as there's a decent barbers opposite the entrance. The barriers rejected the tickets, but the guy manning them let me through. On returning he let us back in but told us he'd spoken to the ticket office and the tickets weren't valid via Rugby. At this point I pulled out my Avanti seat reservation that was attached to the ticket showing Rugby to MK. He didn't have a good answer to this so I went to catch the train and our tickets weren't checked onboard (as we were alighting at Watford Junction and using a travelcard to get to Wembley, they didn't get checked at a barrier either).

I was planning to go back the same way, but surprisingly the Avanti was cancelled. (Oxford United got promoted and I'd found a Polish shop for drinks and food so I wasn't too bothered by this!)

 

[yorkie]

...h. On returning he let us back in but told us he'd spoken to the ticket office and the tickets weren't valid via Rugby. At this point I pulled out my Avanti seat reservation that was attached to the ticket showing Rugby to MK. He didn't have a good answer to this so I went to catch the train ...

Knowledge among ticket office and gateline staff is not always up to the standards one might expect; such behaviour is not as uncommon as it should be.

That's a good way to handle such interactions; being calm and showing evidence of validity, means staff are more likely to back down.