Vaping on Trains and vaping in general

[Lewisham2221]

Utter rubbish.

Granted, you can usually smell them. It's not usually a particularly unpleasant smell though, unless you really don't like the smell of anything sweet. I'd certainly rather smell someone's vape than, for example, the lingering odour of tobacco smoke from someone who just nailed 7 cigarettes before making a last minute dash for the train, because they can't go an hour or so without nicotine.

 

[TUC]

Do you have the same kind of opinion on people who drink alcohol on trains? I'd rather sit next to a person vaping than a person drinking.

Why? Drinking a glass of wine, if people aren't drunk, doesn't affect you in the slightest.

They can't expressly prohibit anything unless they have a law to back it up. Company policy means literally nothing and if you have business on the railway and are not in breach of byelaws you don't have to leave at all.

As highlighted in a separate thread, it is curious how the railway thinks it needs a bylaw to enforce issues such as this, whereas retailers have no problem with taking the view that as their premises are private property they can set whatever rules they wish with regard to its use.

 

[Thirteen]

The main reason to not have vaping indoors especially in spaces with members of the public is because many smoke detectors can be triggered by the vapours.

 

[Watershed]

I was under the impression that vaping was in the same category as e-cigarettes, and that that category was covered by the no smoking law i.e. wherever smoking was illegal, using e-cigarettes or vapes was also illegal. Is that not the case?

No. the smoking ban on the railway comes from Byelaw 3, which states:

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

It's quite clear that a vaping device or e-cigarette doesn't fall under that. Therefore vaping can only really be banned under Byelaw 6(8):

No person shall ... molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway

Which is the same Byelaw that Merseyrail use to prosecute putting your feet on the seats. I'm not aware of any successful prosecutions for vaping under this Byelaw, although on the fact of it, it would seem to 'qualify'.

 

[Benjwri]

Those who are inclined to get hysterical about vaping use such emotive words as 'stinking' when in fact the vapour doesn't stink, the vape may be flavoured but that's only apparent to the person using it

It might not stink like takeaway food, but the second hand vapour has been medically proven to, and certainly does for me and others I know, trigger asthma attacks in asthma sufferers, the same as cigarette smoke.

 

[Trackman]

It might not stink like takeaway food, but the second hand vapour has been medically proven to, and certainly does for me and others I know, trigger asthma attacks in asthma sufferers, the same as cigarette smoke.

They must do something, they were banned from my pub as they set the fire alarms off. I didnt think this was possible

 

[Aviator88]

Nicotine in itself isn’t harmful to health?

It definitely is mate - whilst smoking tobacco is responsible for plaque build up in the arteries, nicotine alone is the driving force behind hardening them and causing chronic high blood pressure when applied over a few decades.

 

[Benjwri]

I didnt think this was possible

Many things can set off fire alarms, aerosols are another common cause. If there is enough of it it will block the radiation from the source being detected and the fire alarm will sound. Obviously there are also fire alarms that only detect heat.

 

[Thirteen]

Many things can set off fire alarms, aerosols are another common cause. If there is enough of it it will block the radiation from the source being detected and the fire alarm will sound. Obviously there are also fire alarms that only detect heat.

That's likely the reason why e-cigarettes aren't allowed in most private premises like a theatre or a cinema because given how disruptive and potentially costly it is to having to evacuate due to a false positive, it's much easier just to have a rule banning it outright.

 

[Mikey C]

Had this happen on a train back from Blackpool at the weekend. Both parents of a family with young children who were treating the carriage as a playpark climbing all over the tables and hanging off the overhead storage.. They vaped for most of the journey!

To be honest, I'd find the children running riot far more annoying than the vaping.

 

[WesternBiker]

To be honest, I'd find the children running riot far more annoying than the vaping.

...I'd find the parents more irritating for letting their kids run riot. Just like those who stand their kids on the seats...

 

[LPJOHN]

On Merseyrail 777 I have heard several announcements recently which say e-cigarettes are banned on trains and stations.

It looks like Australia is going to ban recreational vaping.

Australia to ban recreational vaping in major public health move

The government says vaping has become a huge epidemic, particularly affecting young people.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Purple Train]

Definitely something needs to be done about it. It's disgusting. But, if it is left to people who know the policies/care about antisocial behaviour, then it's not going to go away. If I'm the only person apart from the offender in the eleventh coach of a Thameslink 700 (say), them I'm not going to challenge them about it, for fear of a punch or worse - if I was six foot ten I would think differently! Expecting the minority of people who will readily challenge an antisocial stranger to take it into their own hands isn't the right approach - and how much of a difference would reporting it on Twitter make? By the time anything's done, the offender will be long gone!

 

[Ediswan]

Granted, you can usually smell them. It's not usually a particularly unpleasant smell though, unless you really don't like the smell of anything sweet.

That's must include me then. Originally, I was neutral on vaping in closed areas. We had a few at work, barely noticeable. Then the flavoured varities became common, at which time I changed to being against the activity.

 

[Thirteen]

On Merseyrail 777 I have heard several announcements recently which say e-cigarettes are banned on trains and stations.

It looks like Australia is going to ban recreational vaping.

Australia to ban recreational vaping in major public health move

The government says vaping has become a huge epidemic, particularly affecting young people.

www.bbc.co.uk

Scotland is looking to ban disposable and flavoured vapes as well.

 

[Fisherman80]

I quit smoking 2 years ago and went onto a vape pen. I never smoked on a train until it was banned but I am guilty of vaping on a train from time to time if the carriage I am travelling on is empty.

 

[43066]

Granted, you can usually smell them. It's not usually a particularly unpleasant smell though, unless you really don't like the smell of anything sweet. I'd certainly rather smell someone's vape than, for example, the lingering odour of tobacco smoke from someone who just nailed 7 cigarettes before making a last minute dash for the train, because they can't go an hour or so without nicotine.

I’d rather not smell either although, even as an ex smoker, I’d say I prefer the smell of cigarette smoke to vapes.

 

[Mikey C]

Scotland is looking to ban disposable and flavoured vapes as well.

Apart from anything else, there are very good environmental reasons for banning disposable vapes.

 

[gazr]

Like most things in this country, people turn a blind eye to things, or think I'll let someone else deal with it. The more vaping that happens on trains, the more others will be emboldened to do it. It's VILE, end of. Not enough research to know what effects it has, or what chemicals are produced when exhaling clouds which others are forced to breathe in. Imagine what would happen if a dodgy batch of vapes were released...lots of portable bio/chemical weapons. Yes, that may be hyperbole on my part, but the threat is there.

I went off of someone vaping on the Elizabeth line in a rather crowded carriage. I felt very embarrassed after as it's out of character, but the idiot did stop- I was more concerned about getting stabbed tbh. Edit: Buses are worse...in such a confined space...Gives me travel sickness.

 

[Archvile]

I went off of someone vaping on the Elizabeth line in a rather crowded carriage. I felt very embarrassed after as it's out of character, but the idiot did stop- I was more concerned about getting stabbed tbh. Edit: Buses are worse...in such a confined space...Gives me travel sickness.

Playing devil's advocate but if you're on the Lizzy Line, you're already willingly breathing in KNOWN carcinogens and other nasties, far beyond what's contained in vape clouds.

 

[Watershed]

Playing devil's advocate but if you're on the Lizzy Line, you're already willingly breathing in KNOWN carcinogens and other nasties, far beyond what's contained in vape clouds.

Perhaps you could elaborate about the carcinogens you have in mind. But exposing yourself to certain pollution is an inevitable part of heading out of the house.

I also doubt that the background concentration of air pollution, even on the Elizabeth line or Tube, comes anywhere close to the concentration of nasties in vape clouds. Citation needed there, I think...

 

[Krokodil]

however the alternative is someone smoking cigarettes

For helping people stop smoking they could be available on prescription. Certainly no flavoured varieties. There are plenty of kids hooked on them who have never smoked.

They can't expressly prohibit anything unless they have a law to back it up. Company policy means literally nothing and if you have business on the railway and are not in breach of byelaws you don't have to leave at all.

Byelaw 6(8) can be stretched to cover just about anything.

To be honest, I'd find the children running riot far more annoying than the vaping.

Maybe if the parents spent less time vaping, and more time parenting the kids wouldn't be running riot. Some hope...

 

[Thirteen]

Apart from anything else, there are very good environmental reasons for banning disposable vapes.

I think if it happens in Scotland, the rest of the UK will likely follow.

The flavoured vapes are honestly like the sweet sickly smell you get at M&M World and the less said about disposable vapes, the better.

 

[Whistler40145]

I’m Asthmatic and can’t stand the vile smell of vapes, usually making it difficult to breathe

 

[Bertie the bus]

Byelaw 6(8) can be stretched to cover just about anything.

I think you might struggle to convince a magistrate that someone engaging in a perfectly legal activity the NHS is actively encouraging people to take up is wilfully interfering with people's comfort unless they are doing something like deliberately exhaling the vapour into the person opposite's face and smirking.

 

[michael74]

If someone is Vaping on my train I ask them to stop and to be fair once is usually enough to garner an embarrassed "sorry mate"...... GWR are very clear no vaping or smoking on railway property or trains.... (that's not to say their is no pragmatism to be had. The other week we were held at a station waiting for the up train so we could pass. I knew we would be about 20 minutes so I told pax to get off and have smoke/vape if needed). If I find (accompanied) kids are running riot I usually ask the parents not to let kids hang off racks etc, and again usually works.

For balance sometimes the smell of fish and chips can be rather overpowering, however I am certain the smell of Fish and Chips is less harmful than breathing in someone else vape smoke.....

 

[Archvile]

Perhaps you could elaborate about the carcinogens you have in mind. But exposing yourself to certain pollution is an inevitable part of heading out of the house.

I also doubt that the background concentration of air pollution, even on the Elizabeth line or Tube, comes anywhere close to the concentration of nasties in vape clouds. Citation needed there, I think...

Particulate matter (of which there are many forms, think diesel fumes, sulphates, black carbon etc) is widely accepted to increase cancer risk when experienced in high levels, such as those found in cities. And then you have the nitrogen and sulfur dioxides which are found in excess in urbanised areas.

The concentration of toxins in vape clouds will (Probably? Possibly?) be higher, but how often do you really breath it in? Ten seconds a day? You're exposed to the rest of it every second you spend in at risk areas, hours or more. My argument is that if you willingly accept that risk by living or working in such a place, worrying about passive vaping is pennies to the pound.

 

[43066]

Particulate matter (of which there are many forms, think diesel fumes, sulphates, black carbon etc) is widely accepted to increase cancer risk when experienced in high levels, such as those found in cities. And then you have the nitrogen and sulfur dioxides which are found in excess in urbanised areas.

The concentration of toxins in vape clouds will (Probably? Possibly?) be higher, but how often do you really breath it in? Ten seconds a day? You're exposed to the rest of it every second you spend in at risk areas, hours or more. My argument is that if you willingly accept that risk by living or working in such a place, worrying about passive vaping is pennies to the pound.

The presence of toxins in the atmosphere is regrettable, and something we should be trying to reduce. It’s certainly not something we should make worse by tolerating vaping on trains or on railway property - especially on the underground where air pollution is above recommended levels already, particularly on the deep level lines.

 

[Archvile]

The presence of toxins in the atmosphere is regrettable, and something we should be trying to reduce. It’s certainly not something we should make worse by tolerating vaping on trains or on railway property - especially on the underground where air pollution is above recommended levels already, particularly on the deep level lines.

Quite. I'd never advocate doing it in enclosed spaces where you're removing somebody's choice to breath something that they don't want to, but from a logical standpoint, passive vaping is just the itty bittiest of worries people should have when it comes to air quality. You'd come to more harm taking in a lungful of smoke from a roadside vendor's charcoal grill!

 

[Egg Centric]

Is there no moderate view here? Disgusting, vile, etc really rather bizarre epithets for electronically heating a liquid and inhaling it. I don't vape because it seems a completely pointless thing to do to me - this visceral hatred though by half the posters is very strange. Am I missing something?

Now that said it also shouldn't be being done because it's against the rules and funny smells aren't ideal. I have some sympathy for the addicts though if it's on a journey longer than... well, I dunno exactly - how long does nicotine withdrawal take to kick in? Let's say 4 hours at a guess. Not feeding an addiction isn't fun and I would rather the addicts were kept saited if reasonably practical.

This leads me to simple conclusion - perhaps we should introduce a vaping carriage or compartment on long distance trains?