Vauxhall to Surbiton: valid via Waterloo?

[JamesDrew]

I was at Vauxhall station earlier today, needing to get to Surbiton, and found I didn't have my PAYG Oyster card with me. So I bought a single ticket Vauxhall to Surbiton, the route was stated as 'any permitted'.

I got on a train which was due to stop at Surbiton but it was held up at Vauxhall, apparently due to a fault with the doors. I needed to get to Surbiton asap and there was a Waterloo-bound train pulling in across the platform so I changed onto this one. At Waterloo I then changed to a fast train, whose first stop was Surbiton (subsequently overtaking several southbound trains that were queuing at Vauxhall).

I had no problem with the journey but wondered whether the ticket was strictly valid to do the journey this way?

If not, would I have needed to pay an excess fare?

(with a PAYG Oyster card such a route wouldn't seem to be an issue)

Many thanks

James.

 

[bb21]

No, you are not permitted to travel via Waterloo due to doubling back between Vauxhall and Waterloo. In addition, there is this negative easement:

Customers travelling from Vauxhall to Clapham Junction and beyond may not travel via London Waterloo. This easement applies in both directions.

If you were caught, you would have been liable for a Penalty Fare.

You might argue that since you touched in and out correctly, you should be fine on Oyster, but there have been cases reported before that people got in trouble for doing that (going beyond the destination and doubling back, and it was with SWT too) so you need to be careful.

 

[JamesDrew]

Thanks for the clarification

However, 2 further questions now arise:

What type of ticket should I have bought at Vauxhall to travel to Surbiton via Waterloo? The ticket machine doesn't appear to offer a 'via London' for this journey.

In terms of Oyster validity, if I had been using my PAYG and had reached the daily cap, would the Oyster card then be definitely valid for this journey? (I think the Oyster card is functioning like a travelcard once the cap is reached)

James

 

[hassaanhc]

Thanks for the clarification

However, 2 further questions now arise:

What type of ticket should I have bought at Vauxhall to travel to Surbiton via Waterloo? The ticket machine doesn't appear to offer a 'via London' for this journey.

In terms of Oyster validity, if I had been using my PAYG and had reached the daily cap, would the Oyster card then be definitely valid for this journey? (I think the Oyster card is functioning like a travelcard once the cap is reached)

James

I think that would have to be either
1. Vauxhall-London Terminals return + Vauxhall-Surbiton single (train from Waterloo must call at Vauxhall)
OR
2. Vauxhall-London Terminals single + London Terminals-Surbiton single (which would also be valid on trains not calling at Vauxhall)

Oyster card is a bit of a tough one so I can't answer 100% about it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you were caught, you would have been liable for a Penalty Fare.

You might argue that since you touched in and out correctly, you should be fine on Oyster, but there have been cases reported before that people got in trouble for doing that (going beyond the destination and doubling back, and it was with SWT too) so you need to be careful.

That confirms the belief that I held, trying to double back on Oyster PAYG and getting checked just after boarding the train back would get you into trouble, as you'd touched in somewhere in completely the opposite direction of where the train came from (e.g. Doing Waterloo-Surbiton-Clapham Junction and getting checked after leaving Surbiton on return, that is why I buy a paper Boundary Zone return (have a Monthly season covering part of it) if I'm wanting to do the 1923 non-stop 455 working :P)

 

[Mushtimushta]

To answer your question on which ticket would legitimately allow travel via London Waterloo - you would need to purchase a ticket from London Terminals (rather than Vauxhall) to Surbiton. London Area fares single & return fares were made zonal in 2007 and as Vauxhall in on the boundary of Zone 1 & 2, fare levels from Vauxhall do not include a charge for Zone 1.
You would have to buy the ticket from the Ticket Office, rather than the ticket machine.
Journeys from Vauxhall to stations outside the London Fare Zones remain issued with an origin "London Terminals" and are therefore automatically valid via London Waterloo without further payment.

 

[bb21]

A London Terminals - Surbiton ticket is not valid for travel Vauxhall - Waterloo - Surbiton due to the doubleback. A return or two singles will be needed.

 

[455driver]

Journeys from Vauxhall to stations outside the London Fare Zones remain issued with an origin "London Terminals" and are therefore automatically valid via London Waterloo without further payment.

I dont know much about ticketing but even I know that is wrong!

Since when has Vauxhall been a London terminus?
Since when has there been one ticket valid from Vauxhall to Waterloo, back to Vauxhall and on to A N other destination?

That is doubling back and apart from a few easements (none relevant to this journey) isnt a valid route.

 

[bb21]

Vauxhall is considered a London Terminal for ticketing purposes. (See this.)

 

[455driver]

But you cant go from one London terminus to another London terminus, change trains, go back through the first London terminus and onwards using a point to point ticket.

I could have worded it better!

 

[JamesDrew]

But you cant go from one London terminus to another London terminus, change trains, go back through the first London terminus and onwards using a point to point ticket.

Thanks, but I'm a bit confused- when going from Vauxhall to Bournemouth the ticket I bought was to do exactly that i.e. Vauxhall to Waterloo to Bournemouth. (I think it said 'via London' on it). I was told it was quicker to go via Waterloo than change further down the line as the Bournemouth train in question didn't stop at Clapham Junction.

That's why I thought there might be a similar allowance to go to Surbiton from Vauxhall via Waterloo.

 

[maniacmartin]

National Rail only shows itineraries for Vauxhall to Bournemouth via Waterloo on Advance tickets (Booked train only). For normal walkup tickets, I only see itineraries with changes at Clapham Junction and Basingstoke.

I can see how this is a bit confusing, with Advances being sold for a route that would not otherwise be valid if it were not for the case that you have to use the booked train. NRE is bad at showing this, as you can change the ticket type to a walkup one and the route will still show - however you will not be able to purchase a walkup ticket from any booking engine with that itinerary.

 

[bb21]

From Vauxhall? There is no Via London flow. Perhaps it was from a different origin?

If a ticket is routed Via London, then you can indeed go into a London Terminal and back out.

Edit:

Yes, for Advance fares, normal rules on routeing may not apply.

 

[Haywain]

I think that would have to be either
1. Vauxhall-London Terminals return + Vauxhall-Surbiton single (train from Waterloo must call at Vauxhall)
OR
2. Vauxhall-London Terminals single + London Terminals-Surbiton single (which would also be valid on trains not calling at Vauxhall)

Oyster card is a bit of a tough one so I can't answer 100% about it

Or, if the journey is after 09:30, an Off Peak Day Travelcard.