Victoria Escalators wasting electricity ?.

[Peter Sarf]

Why is there a blocked off escalator left running in the wrong direction ?. I have noticed this more than once at Victoria underground station where the escalators bring people up from the Victoria line (the old up/exit and down/in route). There are three escalators and on each occasion the central one has been running in the down (so wrong ?) direction but with tapes pulled across to block access. There were no staff hanging around waiting to open it to use and the way down is now via a new escalator shaft and tunnels anyway. What is the purpose of this ?. The two outer escalators were running in the up direction as this escalator shaft has become exit only.

I noticed this today (Sunday 27/12/2022), last Thursday (24/12/2022) and some time before.

 

[Ken X]

Puree speculation but escalators should not be used as stairs due to step height and only being held on a parking brake without internal intervention.
When we turned a machine off we inveriably had bright sparks hopping over barriers and nipping up or down the stationary machine. Running the machine down behind barriers disuades all but the most enthusiastic idiot having a go at climbing it. This said I may be incorrect in this case.
Reversing a machine which has been running one way for some time often causes bad things to happen and is not recommended without major engineering.

 

[Hadders]

My educated guess is that every so often escalators need to be run in the 'other' direction or there is the potential for them to not work when required to work in the 'wrong' direction.

 

[Turtle]

Puree speculation but escalators should not be used as stairs due to step height and only being held on a parking brake without internal intervention.
When we turned a machine off we inveriably had bright sparks hopping over barriers and nipping up or down the stationary machine. Running the machine down behind barriers disuades all but the most enthusiastic idiot having a go at climbing it. This said I may be incorrect in this case.
Reversing a machine which has been running one way for some time often causes bad things to happen and is not recommended without major engineering.

Quite. I remember having to use a static escalator as stairs down on a number of occasions. A strange sensation and rather disorientating.

 

[TheSeeker]

Reversing a machine which has been running one way for some time often causes bad things to happen and is not recommended without major engineering.

There's a bi-directional escalator at my local Metro station in Brussels. You press a button, a siren sounds. It stops and then starts going in the other direction.

 

[Ken X]

Interesting beast, I can just imagine the fun to be had by the local kids . Machines that are run in both directions regularly are usually fine, its the ones which have been running for years in one direction which cause the problems. Owners have been known to decide to change the building flow without consulting their maintainance company resulting in a machine chewing up and spitting out steps in a somewhat spectacular fashion. Expensive sport.

 

[nlogax]

Do we see any energy-saving escalators in use across the TfL network? Specifically the ones which accelerate to normal speeds when you step on them. May have missed it but I can't remember encountering any on the Elizabeth line and it's difficult to see how they would be of any benefit in high footfall areas of the network outside of the earliest and latest hours.

 

[D365]

There's a bi-directional escalator at my local Metro station in Brussels. You press a button, a siren sounds. It stops and then starts going in the other direction.

Cor. A lot of the automatic bi-directional U-Bahn escalators in Germany don't have any kind of warning, other than a momentary pause.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

@nlogax short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer from the Mayor’s office.

The Mayor
Date:
Thursday, 11th July 2019
Yes. In line with Transport for London’s (TfL) Energy Strategy, London Underground is working to implement station energy plans that identify ways to reduce energy consumption.
Where we have more than two escalators and operations allow, station staff currently switch off the additional escalator(s) during quiet periods.
TfL will shortly launch a trial where local station teams will extend the escalator resting time at suitable locations, to reduce energy consumption further. Posters by resting escalators will explain to customers that TfL is taking this measure to reduce its carbon footprint.

In addition, as part of TfL’s escalator renewal programme, more efficient motors are being installed across the network. TfL’s newest escalators can also be placed into Economy Mode, which automatically slows them down when they are not being used.

Source: https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2019/11985

 

[nlogax]

@nlogax short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer from the Mayor’s office.


Source: https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2019/11985

Great stuff, thank you. Sounds like I have some more work to track one down!

 

[Snow1964]

Do we see any energy-saving escalators in use across the TfL network? Specifically the ones which accelerate to normal speeds when you step on them. May have missed it but I can't remember encountering any on the Elizabeth line and it's difficult to see how they would be of any benefit in high footfall areas of the network outside of the earliest and latest hours.

TfL (London Transport as it was then) tried it decades ago, think they called it speedray.

At the time the extra complexity outweighed the extra wear and power used, and was not useful for passengers entering station as they arrived trickling in intervals, but passengers getting off trains arrive in a bunch, then it is quiet until next train, so was only suitable for exit escalators.

Wasn’t much of a passenger time gap, especially when escalator serves two platforms in central London, but I suspect now power electronics exist and electricity is expensive would make sense away from busy central area, but wasn’t specified when electricity was relatively cheap few years ago.

 

[DavyCrocket]

My opinion (I keep forgetting to ask) is that it’s for staff access because of the longer time by going via the signed route. Escalator is running so that it’s not used by people when stationary.

I don’t know of any LU escalators that can’t be used when stationary (unless due to a defect or staff working below), as they have the appropriate braking system in place. There are some inherited from other companies such as Network Rail which don’t have the same systems, so can’t be used when stationary.

Update. It is for staff access as described above. Whilst there is a lift, some staff should not use them

 

[thomalex]

Do we see any energy-saving escalators in use across the TfL network? Specifically the ones which accelerate to normal speeds when you step on them. May have missed it but I can't remember encountering any on the Elizabeth line and it's difficult to see how they would be of any benefit in high footfall areas of the network outside of the earliest and latest hours.

All the escalators in the core Elizabeth line stations are energy saving and will slow down if not in use. This is quite rare as you would imagine and I've only seen it in person on the escalators up from the Bakerloo link at Paddington and the Barbican end of Farringdon one late evening.

 

[Chris M]

All the escalators in the core Elizabeth line stations are energy saving and will slow down if not in use. This is quite rare as you would imagine and I've only seen it in person on the escalators up from the Bakerloo link at Paddington and the Barbican end of Farringdon one late evening.

I've seen it at Canary Wharf a few times. The escalators from quay level at the western end of the concourse there are arranged in two pairs, very oddly (to me) off-peak both have an up and a down escalator, but during the peak the southern pair are both down and the northern pair both up. I've not yet arrived at changeover time!

 

[Mojo]

The three escalators from the Northern line up to Piccadilly line level at Kings Cross also behave in this manner.

 

[rebmcr]

The three escalators from the Northern line up to Piccadilly line level at Kings Cross also behave in this manner.

Do you know by what method they detect a passenger?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

All the escalators in the core Elizabeth line stations are energy saving and will slow down if not in use.

South Kensington escalators also function in this manner. Lasers at the entry funnels are used to detect persons accessing the escalator.

 

[TheSeeker]

Wasn't there an anti-capitalist protest at Canary Wharf some years ago. I remember footage of the building security guards setting the entrance escalators to go down. Carnage ensued.

 

[geoffk]

There's a bi-directional escalator at my local Metro station in Brussels. You press a button, a siren sounds. It stops and then starts going in the other direction.

Escalators which start on demand from passengers and stop where there's none about seem quite common in continental stations and elsewhere. I assume it's done to save electricity and parts wearing out.

 

[Ken X]

Do you know by what method they detect a passenger?

This is common at Airports where the passenger flow is extremely lumpy, particularly in gates where a machine may see a crowd of 200 people then nothing for an hour. The first generation used Passive Infrared sensors but I think the current machines use radar.

If you approach the wrong end of the machine it will start up in half speed to prevent use. If the correct end is used the machine ramps up to full speed. If no more users are detected after a time delay it will return to half speed then further time out to stop.

When the first stopping machines were introduced, the on-site engineers were plagued with callouts from staff to say a certain machine had stopped as they were used to continuous running. The reply soon became "have you tried approaching it?" Ooh its started.

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[Turtle]

Escalators which start on demand from passengers and stop where there's none about seem quite common in continental stations and elsewhere. I assume it's done to save electricity and parts wearing out.

Yes. I noticed it on the Köln metro in the 2000s.

 

[Mikey C]

Puree speculation but escalators should not be used as stairs due to step height and only being held on a parking brake without internal intervention.

At most stations you don't have any choice but to walk down (and occasionally up) the escalator if they aren't working!

 

[nlogax]

At most stations you don't have any choice but to walk down (and occasionally up) the escalator if they aren't working!

This makes me think back to a specific occasion when every single Jubilee escalator came to a standstill at Waterloo. It was quite the walk up to the surface from tube level. Walking a dead escalator can be a disconcerting experience at the best of times but that distance was a bit much.

 

[TheSeeker]

Over here they are mostly from ThyssenKrupp (Not OTIS of Reading). They stop if there's no traffic but as soon as you put a foot on the initial plate they start running. Pressure detector I would guess.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Last two visits to Victoria (one a detour to sate my curiosity) and the offending escalator is stationery !.

This makes me think back to a specific occasion when every single Jubilee escalator came to a standstill at Waterloo. It was quite the walk up to the surface from tube level. Walking a dead escalator can be a disconcerting experience at the best of times but that distance was a bit much.

Yes. I realise how used to using escalators I have got when I have to negotiate one that is not moving !.

UPDATE 02/12/2022
Thursday 01/12/2022 the escalator was back in action circa 18:00.
Regards, from your escalator spotter on the scene .