Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[warriorofrovac]

How can the governnent say 'they got their sums wrong and now they must pay the price', and then leave the senior management team in place?
Presumably by 'they', they meant VTEC senior management?

What price will they pay?

Well presumably by 'they' they mean the bid team. I wonder how many of the VTEC Senior Management were actually part of the bid team. David Horne wasn't.

 

[yorksrob]

Now that the ECML will be losing it's "Virginity" (for want of a better term), I wonder if we will see more aggressive price competition with EMT for London - West Yorkshire flows.

 

[jon0844]

It was discussed from around page 42 onwards. I agree, Virgin would be well within their rights to request removal of the livery. We'll see.

Surely they'd have to pay for it though.

 

[Hadders]

I haven't seen any de-branded VTEC trains yet. Normally with just over a couple of weeks to go before an operator changes you'll see lots of de-branded trains running around.

I suspect all we'll see initially is a LNER sticker over the Virgin name on the 91s and HST power cars. Any Virgin branding internally on the trains will simply be covered up with stickers. The Virgin branded headrests in 1st class will need to be replaced (or even just removed completely and replaced with an anti-macassar)

My local station (Stevenage) isn't the largest station but does have a bit of VTEC branding, including the Travel Centre, bike signs on the steps down to the platforms and platform signs indicating where each coach is. This was all replaced in one go when VTEC started and I suspect it'll be the same this time. To be fair, they've had lots of practice at it....

 

[gsnedders]

How can the governnent say 'they got their sums wrong and now they must pay the price', and then leave the senior management team in place?
Presumably by 'they', they meant VTEC senior management?

What price will they pay?

How many of the senior management team were part of DOR and NXEC before that?

 

[Gagravarr]

I had a good look through the VTEC website a few days ago and was surprised that I couldn't find anything at all about the operator coming to an end shortly. On the main page in the 'news' section further down, it has stories about Virgin have done this and that and are the first to sell tickets on Alexa. But say nothing about the VTEC brand coming to a close. Nothing on the about us section or our commitments either.

The Virgin Red app (the cross-Virgin loyalty and engagement thingy) today has a big thing on VTEC leaving as the first story ("tile") shown. So, at least one bit of the Virgin empire is admitting to the loss

 

[cf111]

My penultimate, possibly final, journey on a very busy southbound Highland Chieftain this morning. My seat in coach "L" is broken and keeps reclining and there is no on-train power. Hopefully breakfast is still forthcoming as I do enjoy the VTEC morning offering.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Virgin Trains East Coast twitter is saying that "x3 will have been branded LNER for the 24th of June with the rest branded over the weeks after"

Virgin Trains EC:
"For the moment it'll just be LNER stickers on Virgin livery, but I can't confirm anything else just yet"

 

[Sirgerbil]

Re: Livery and brand changes.

We had an internal email stating that from the 14th they would start to remove Virgin branding (not necessarily the trains themselves) in prep for the 24th so I think you may start seeing some changes from the 14th.

 

[Journeyman]

It's the management that have imposed the staff cuts, the catering cuts, the new booking engine, the childish advertising...

I certainly won't miss Virgin's "wackaging" - the company culture is pathetically infantile and all their communications and marketing make me wince. Have you ever gone through their recruitment process? It's like it's aimed at twelve year olds, and much as I want to work for the railway, it effectively puts a job with them off-limits to me.

I really, really hope all that nonsense disappears and it becomes a proper "grown up" company again.

 

[whhistle]

Another odd manager job was someone to work on web/app analytics. I can't see that been worthy of a full time job, particularly at manager grade.

You're figuring out the title "manager" means very little these days...
There are many "managers" that are employed that think the title gives them some sort of status and garners respect but I couldn't care less of someones title.

Just like VTWCs Social Media team having "Customer Communication Specialists" (or whatever they're called now), a "Social Media Manager" and then a "Head of Social Media", who then feeds into some sort of other business manager in London. It's a team of about 6/8 people. So nearly everyone is a manager, and thus nobody is important anymore.

Nectar is amazing, for frequent shoppers at Sainsbury’s... I know people who rack up so many points that they can do their Christmas shops on them, but for the Rail network they have no incentive... Im gaining virtually no points for a quick trip on VTWC or VTEC... A loyalty scheme could work alongside nectar.

Still don't understand this sentiment.
I don't get rewarded for shopping at Asda, or buying their petrol. My reward is the cheap prices.
You're not entitled to a reward and while I understand it encourages you to travel with them, I travel with whoever will get me to where I want to go. If I get rewarded, that's great but I don't use rival supermarkets just because Asda don't do any rewards scheme (that's worth it).
I got a bunch of reward points for travelling with Virgin Atlantic once. It'll be 10 years before I look to travel wherever they fly from and to, by which time the rewards won't exist any more. That's why I pay no attention to rewards for the long term. Too many terms and conditions all to save a few quid: not worth the hassle.

 

[43096]

How can the governnent say 'they got their sums wrong and now they must pay the price', and then leave the senior management team in place?
Presumably by 'they', they meant VTEC senior management?

What price will they pay?

Because VTEC senior management, including David Horne, didn’t write the bid. They have been tasked with delivering what was bid, which is somewhat different. Some might remember - others might conveniently have forgotten as it doesn’t suit their rants - that David Horne was EMT MD until he moved to VTEC, so was not part of the bid team.

 

[jon0844]

The Virgin Red app (the cross-Virgin loyalty and engagement thingy) today has a big thing on VTEC leaving as the first story ("tile") shown. So, at least one bit of the Virgin empire is admitting to the loss

Knowing Virgin it would say something like 'Due to Stagecoach losing the franchise, Virgin today announces it is ending its brand licensing agreement' or similar.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Knowing Virgin it would say something like 'Due to Stagecoach losing the franchise, Virgin today announces it is ending its brand licensing agreement' or similar.

The Virgin Red app actually has quite a balanced farewell and they're letting VTEC customers keep their 'verified Virgin customer' benefits for a year after VTEC ceases to exist even if they're not listed as a customer of another Virgin company.

VTEC and Virgin Red were quite early partners. In the early days when they had fewer users I managed to win a few bottles of wine.

When I sent the VTEC social media team a 'No to Nectar' cake, Virgin Red sent me a 'Yes to Virgin Red' cake!

 

[SaveECRewards]

Because VTEC senior management, including David Horne, didn’t write the bid. They have been tasked with delivering what was bid, which is somewhat different. Some might remember - others might conveniently have forgotten as it doesn’t suit their rants - that David Horne was EMT MD until he moved to VTEC, so was not part of the bid team.

I hope you're not thinking of me here. When the franchise was first awarded I said to many people that the decision to go with Nectar was made before he was appointed and more recently (February) I actually mentioned in a blog the possibility of this happening.

So at the moment anything is possible. I think the government taking direct control is the safest option, but that does not automatically mean a return to the East Coast days, they need to ensure they have a decent management team in place. They could even keep some of the existing management team in place if they wanted to remain (David Horne was not part of the bidding process he just had to live with the result!)

Although I do think a clean break would have helped with staff morale, it'll be interesting to see how he deals with this new challenge.

 

[DenmarkRail]

I hope you're not thinking of me here. When the franchise was first awarded I said to many people that the decision to go with Nectar was made before he was appointed and more recently (February) I actually mentioned in a blog the possibility of this happening.



Although I do think a clean break would have helped with staff morale, it'll be interesting to see how he deals with this new challenge.

A lot of his language over the past few weeks has suggested he’s staying on... well at least the way I’ve interpreted it anyway

 

[pt_mad]

Because VTEC senior management, including David Horne, didn’t write the bid. They have been tasked with delivering what was bid, which is somewhat different. Some might remember - others might conveniently have forgotten as it doesn’t suit their rants - that David Horne was EMT MD until he moved to VTEC, so was not part of the bid team.

But does that send a signal of accountability?

If someone ran their own business and used a financial advisor, and the firm went bust, they'd have to take accountability for that not just blame the advisors. And if they'd taken over a business from someone else and it then went bust, presumably they'd have to take accountability for that too.

For all customers and staff know, most of those involved in the bid team could have left the company before now?

 

[FQTV]

Fully agree - and yet this was the Managing Director who presided over recruiting yet more corporate management, while culling at the operational level.

Worse still, the quality of some of those corporate appointments seems to have been quite appalling; recruiting some who appear to be pure self-publicists (quite in the Virgin mould) and who have presided over service regressions entirely at odds with the Virgin rhetoric that many have ‘fallen for’ over the years.

I wrote the above in terms of my own perception of this aspect of Virgin Trains East Coast, but a couple of other things also occur to me reading other posters’ thoughts.

Firstly, the performance of the Virgin Trains East Coast management team is, until 23rd June, entirely that company’s right to accept and its responsibility to manage. LNER is in no position (whatever LNER currently is) to publicly announce that specific posts will or will not exist, before it has a) taken over and b) followed due-process.

Secondly and connectedly, it’s standard practice in corporate takeover situations, especially hostile ones (and I’d suggest that, in some ways, this is more like a hostile private takeover than simply a contract handover) to let the message throughout be that it’s ‘business as usual’.

This tends to work for both sides, keeping the ship steady, trying not to prejudice employment law and union agreement positions.

Others here will have, I’m sure, specific knowledge and expertise in this regard.

Once the takeover has occurred, strategy settled upon, performance assessed and budgets agreed, then the new ‘owner’ can start the processes required to deal with ongoing operations. They’ll do this with an eye on PR usually, too. Job losses are always a horror for the affected individuals, and regularly have a negative impact on consumer opinion when they’re reported widely.

What the business owner can also do is, immediately but not before the taking over, decide that some operations may not continue. So, on the 25th June, LNER could announce (say) that Nectar is being terminated, not replaced and the ‘loyalty’ function closed down.

The positions would become redundant and they’d go through the statutory processes, looking at alternative employment opportunities etc.

They shouldn’t and couldn’t say that before the takeover, so for now that means that unless an individual resigns in the meantime, everyone is staying.

That doesn’t mean a thing when it comes to a few weeks or months down the line, however.

 

[43096]

I hope you're not thinking of me here.

If the cap fits....

You have had an axe to grind with Virgin throughout their term. Perhaps time to drop the obsession now they're leaving.

 

[SaveECRewards]

If the cap fits....

You have had an axe to grind with Virgin throughout their term. Perhaps time to drop the obsession now they're leaving.

Someone only sees what they want to see! Conveniently forgetting 2015-2016 when I had quite a good relationship with VTEC (I was invited to the Azuma launch event with Branson in 2016, a wine tasting event at King's Cross and was given some Hop on Board before it went on sale).

Read the annual reviews and tell me they're written with an axe to grind?
First year
Second year
Third year

I've always been fair with feedback so any 'axe to grind' was all to do with them making a mess of two things I care about (catering and technology), but I still thought they could turn that around (they did partially with the Catering Lottery, it seems most catering issues in first class at least are maintenance issues rather than short staffing, but the standard class trolley is still rare).

I will admit as of late I have started to be more cynical. But if I've called things wrong I'm happy to change my view.

I care about the East Coast, if I think LNER is doing a good job I will say so, if they mess it up I will also say so.

 

[pt_mad]

When Grayling said they got their sums wrong and now they must pay the price, I have a feeling that was perceived by most that more than just the bid team would pay. How many managers from the bid team are still there roughly? And is it certain they won't manage under LNER?

It's coming across here like the only 'they' who will pay the price is an intangible entity that is the Virgin brand (even though it was 90 percent Stagecoach). 'They' appears not to be any persons or an actual director/directors, judging by what is being reported in this forum by others who say senior leadership to remain under LNER. An entity called Virgin Trains could not have lead to the downfall of the ECML operation. Directors etc must have had something to do with it.

 

[Darandio]

Someone only sees what they want to see!

Maybe he doesn't want to see? Although I notice anyone challenging your point is always conveniently redirected to your website in every other post. Tedious to say the least.

 

[route:oxford]

I don't get rewarded for shopping at Asda, or buying their petrol.

It's your lifestyle choice not to take the reward options at Asda. Many other people choose to take advantage of the 1% cashback that Asda give to their loyal customers. I keep one of their cards in my car for buying fuel.

Airline, hotel, supermarket, credit card schemes are all great.

Visa currently rewards my loyalty with 10% off shopping at Waitrose, Iceland, Morrisons & Coop.

Amex rewards my loyalty with £100 off £500 worth of BA flights and £50 off a £250 Hilton spend.

That £100 off a £500 spend has just resulted in 4 domestic flights being booked, which means that those jouneys won't be taken by rail.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Maybe he doesn't want to see? Although I notice anyone challenging your point is always conveniently redirected to your website in every other post. Tedious to say the least.

It's an easy way to defend my point! I've even removed the ads from the website because people accused me of posting irrelevant links just to drive up hits (and therefore make money). The ads made very little money but did cover hosting and also a few prizes each year. I actually have a blog post on that, but I'll spare you the link

Amex rewards my loyalty with £100 off £500 worth of BA flights and £50 off a £250 Hilton spend.

That £100 off a £500 spend has just resulted in 4 domestic flights being booked, which means that those jouneys won't be taken by rail.

Thanks for reminding me to check my Amex offers. I'll be booking a Hilton hotel sometime soon (frequent use of Hilton hotels gets me lounge access and free breakfast).

For me travel loyalty schemes are important in that they generally make your travel more pleasant if you travel a lot.

 

[route:oxford]

Thanks for reminding me to check my Amex offers. I'll be booking a Hilton hotel sometime soon (frequent use of Hilton hotels gets me lounge access and free breakfast).

For me travel loyalty schemes are important in that they generally make your travel more pleasant if you travel a lot.

I'm more an IHG fan. The 30% discount for Mastercard holders is very useful indeed.

 

[SaveECRewards]

I'm more an IHG fan. The 30% discount for Mastercard holders is very useful indeed.

I used to be more IHG than Hilton, but my travel needs changed. When I managed to stay in places with InterContinental hotels I could reach Royal Ambassador status (a level above the paid Ambassador level) as they looked after you well in IC hotels. Status recognition was more hit and miss in other hotels, no guaranteed lounge access (some Crowne Plazas did, others didn't), no free breakfast, etc. But IHG is great for redeeming points with. I still stay with them if it makes sense, although I'm no longer top tier.

 

[whhistle]

It's your lifestyle choice not to take the reward options at Asda. Many other people choose to take advantage of the 1% cashback that Asda give to their loyal customers.

Because it's too much effort for such a little reward.
If it was made simpler, like Tesco for example, I'd be more interested.

Going further - it's clear they want people to forget. Like having to visit a separate website so compare my shopping and get a voucher for the difference. Tesco manages to do it there and then (or did). Yet I can't log in to the Asda website and compare from there... from the "my account" and of course, it would never just do it automatically!

You can't moan Nectar is rubbish but then say Asda's / AMEX "reward" system is so much better, because as you say, it's a lifestyle choice. People choose not to shop at Sainsburys and thus don't get the reward for travelling and shopping at that store.

If you want to spend £200 on a Hilton, that's great. I'm happy with my £50 "early bird" premier inn, or a local B&B rather than a large chain. Maybe I just visit the wrong places!
And with a hotel group that appears to have flouted the law many times... hmm. Not great even if you're getting a "good" deal.

 

[takno]

If you want to spend £200 on a Hilton, that's great. I'm happy with my £50 "early bird" premier inn, or a local B&B rather than a large chain. Maybe I just visit the wrong places!
And with a hotel group that appears to have flouted the law many times... hmm. Not great even if you're getting a "good" deal.

I'm happy enough with a Premier Inn for around 20 nights of the year. It gets pretty wearing after that, and I want somewhere a bit less... purple. In any case there's no chance I can book most of them early bird because the work doesn't come in until a week or so before. Maybe you're just not spending a third of your life travelling for work?

Anyway, this is all wildly off-topic. Definitely belongs in a different thread.

 

[KashmireHawker]

This looks legit, taken at Perth yesterday: https://twitter.com/ScottishECM/status/1006368886198034432

 

[Mollman]

This looks legit, taken at Perth yesterday: https://twitter.com/ScottishECM/status/1006368886198034432

Given how dull TGN is it would surprise me if this was the new livery!