Virgin Trains EC Delay Repay woes

[rg177]

Hi folks,

I'm currently in a bit of a pickle with VTEC with regards to a journey I made on August 14th this year. I submitted a delay claim shortly after the journey was made, but had to chase it up today on the phone as i'd still not received a reply.

The journey was made with my girlfriend, and was intended to be the 18:03 Kings Cross to Leeds, arriving at 20:23. I would then continue my journey alone to Newcastle, intending to travel on the 20:43 TPE to Newcastle, arriving at 22:19. The tickets held were as follows:

2x London Kings X-Leeds 1st advance (£26.05 each)
1x Leeds-Newcastle STD advance (£7.15)

However, the 18:03 was cancelled and we had to travel on the 18:33 service, which was slightly delayed into Leeds and tipped us over the 30 minute claim mark, arriving at 20:53. So that part of the journey is covered under delay repay. This meant that i'd miss my service to Newcastle, and indeed had to catch the 21:08 XC service to York, changing onto another XC service to Newcastle, arriving at 23:05. This means that for my entire journey, I was also delayed by over 30 minutes.

However, VTEC beg to differ and refuse to compensate for the Leeds to Newcastle leg on the basis that i've split my tickets (I had to, you can't get a direct ticket via Leeds!) but not only this, they won't accept my claim at all...because I sent it via email.

I only sent it via email to explain the fact that there were two different journies involved (London to Leeds for my girlfriend, London to Newcastle via Leeds for me) but apparently that's not allowed anymore and I have to send it all over again via the form, which to be honest is an unnecessary faff considering i've never ever had a claim refused just because I emailed it.

I mean, I will if I honestly have to, but i'm awaiting a call from them tomorrow to see how this will progress. But my question is, who's in the right here?

a) Do Virgin have to compensate me for my whole journey or just the bit that involves them?

b) Are they just being plain awkward by refusing an emailed claim?

Thanks in advance.

 

[AlterEgo]

Virgin are being a bit awkward seeing as this is over the sum of less than £3.60.

No doubt you'll get the usual debate about "what constitutes a journey" (and I note you say there were two journeys!), which can be rather fundamentalist, but for £3.60 I'd write it off as not worth my time.

 

[rg177]

Virgin are being a bit awkward seeing as this is over the sum of less than £3.60.

No doubt you'll get the usual debate about "what constitutes a journey" (and I note you say there were two journeys!), which can be rather fundamentalist, but for £3.60 I'd write it off as not worth my time.

Indeed, but one journey for one person and one journey for another. My journey continued through to Newcastle whereas my girlfriend's ended at Leeds.

I do know what you mean though, it does depend on how much I want that £3.60!

 

[ainsworth74]

As far as I'm concerned that is one journey from London to Newcastle however I have no doubt that they will fight tooth and nail to deny it and that their emails will become ever more whimsical in their attempts to deny responsibility.

I have submitted claims in the past via email to them. Indeed I was advised to do so by the customer service center on one occasion!

 

[rg177]

As far as I'm concerned that is one journey from London to Newcastle however I have no doubt that they will fight tooth and nail to deny it and that their emails will become ever more whimsical in their attempts to deny responsibility.

I have submitted claims in the past via email to them. Indeed I was advised to do so by the customer service center on one occasion!

I was told on the phone that "honestly, we don't owe you anything beyond Leeds as we have no idea what you're going to do beyond there"

I'm hoping that tomorrow's promised phone call won't get even more desperate!

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed, but one journey for one person and one journey for another. My journey continued through to Newcastle whereas my girlfriend's ended at Leeds.

I do know what you mean though, it does depend on how much I want that £3.60!

I think regardless of any debate they really ought to pay it out. Not doing so makes them look rather pathetic.

 

[ainsworth74]

I was told on the phone that "honestly, we don't owe you anything beyond Leeds as we have no idea what you're going to do beyond there"

I'm hoping that tomorrow's promised phone call won't get even more desperate!

And they're wrong as far as I'm concerned but, having had experience of this, I have no doubt that they will refuse to the bitter end. I eventually decided that the best I could achieve was to force them spend the compensation I was owed in dealing with me.

 

[rg177]

To be honest, I'm slowly turning off VTEC as they've been going down the pan ever since they took over the Franchise. Where I can help it, I've been travelling by other companies these days, and I've been buying less and less from their site.

This is just yet another reason for me to not give them business.

 

[Tetchytyke]

To be fair, East Coast were just as pedantic when it came to turning down claims on spurious reasons. And as VTEC have many of the same customer relations staff...

I've been specifically advised to email in a delay claim before now because my situation was complicated (I travelled on an alternate route to avoid delays, and of course the train I was booked on ran and would have got me home earlier) so I'm not sure where they got that from.

As ainsworth says, sometimes the best you can do is waste enough of their time to get the value of the compensation back.

 

[rg177]

Some positive news at least!

I've called up again and this time someone else handled the case. He was completely puzzled by what I'd previously been told and said that sending a claim by email is no reason to refuse it, and also said that I was entitled to compensation for my entire journey, as it was Virgin's delay.

Apparently I'll get an email in the next couple of days!

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

[JimmyR]

To be fair, East Coast were just as pedantic when it came to turning down claims on spurious reasons. And as VTEC have many of the same customer relations staff...

I've been specifically advised to email in a delay claim before now because my situation was complicated (I travelled on an alternate route to avoid delays, and of course the train I was booked on ran and would have got me home earlier) so I'm not sure where they got that from.

As ainsworth says, sometimes the best you can do is waste enough of their time to get the value of the compensation back.

They shouldn't do. VTEC switched from external to internal Customer Relations a few months ago.

 

[rg177]

Indeed, the customer solutions centre recently opened just up the road from me in Cramlington I do believe. Would explain the masses of Geordie accents I was hearing!

I'm yet to hear anything back from Virgin. Probably going to give them until Tuesday (I finish early from college then so have plenty time to chase them up again) seeing as I was promised developments within two days!

 

[Tetchytyke]

They shouldn't do. VTEC switched from external to internal Customer Relations a few months ago.

Oh I stand corrected, the last few letters I've had have been from Plymouth.

 

[dave87016]

IMO the delay repay scheme is somewhat of a farce !! some companies faff around and try to be pendantic and awkward with claims even if they are straight forward claims some like Northern and VTWC dish repay out left right and centre for the most trivial things I must admit obviously the latter works.

For me delay repay claims SHOULD and ARE very easy to deal with also the terms of delay repay for each company are quite simple which begs the questions

are the people who deal with claims such as the OP trained to do so? why does the TOC not protect its image and stop being awkward over £3:60 ? Yes they are a business and want as much revenue as possible but delay repay are there for a reason, and its better to give the customers what they are entitled to , yes they lose money on each claim but the chances are the customer will give the company repeat business if they give the customer what they are entitled to

I myself try to avoid booking and travelling VTEC where possible like the opening poster I feel its going downhill

 

[Haywain]

are the people who deal with claims such as the OP trained to do so? why does the TOC not protect its image and stop being awkward over £3:60 ? Yes they are a business and want as much revenue as possible but delay repay are there for a reason, and its better to give the customers what they are entitled to , yes they lose money on each claim but the chances are the customer will give the company repeat business if they give the customer what they are entitled to

Perhaps this happens because some people chance their arms by claiming when they are not entitled to? After all, every business has the right to protect itself against 'dodgy' claims.

 

[JimmyR]

IMO the delay repay scheme is somewhat of a farce !! some companies faff around and try to be pendantic and awkward with claims even if they are straight forward claims some like Northern and VTWC dish repay out left right and centre for the most trivial things I must admit obviously the latter works.

For me delay repay claims SHOULD and ARE very easy to deal with also the terms of delay repay for each company are quite simple which begs the questions

are the people who deal with claims such as the OP trained to do so? why does the TOC not protect its image and stop being awkward over £3:60 ? Yes they are a business and want as much revenue as possible but delay repay are there for a reason, and its better to give the customers what they are entitled to , yes they lose money on each claim but the chances are the customer will give the company repeat business if they give the customer what they are entitled to

I myself try to avoid booking and travelling VTEC where possible like the opening poster I feel its going downhill

The claims used to be worked out manually by the advisors but nowadays you just wack the customers journey+ticket into the system and it figures out the delay and comp (if it works correctly...).

I suppose it's a problem with having the customer service staff in house, they probably care a bit more about dishing money out.

 

[JimmyR]

Oh I stand corrected, the last few letters I've had have been from Plymouth.

Various TOCs had their Customer Relations handled by the contact centre in Plymouth but alas it is no more.

 

[rg177]

Okay so, I've had success and a £29.85 cheque has been promised.

However, the compensation for the Leeds to Newcastle journey has been declared a "gesture of goodwill for the time taken to process your case" so it seems that they're still going to take some persuading in future cases.

In this instance though, a good result.

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

[gray1404]

If it is merely a gesture of good will then does that mean you remain entitled to the actual compensation still

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Good news, but I'm not sure I quite follow. The TPE Advance fare you bought: was that honoured by XC or did you have to get a new ticket for LDS to NCL? If it was (perhaps endorsed by the staff at LDS?) that was already a major breakthrough and indicated that someone, somewhere did indeed regard this as a 'single journey'.

 

[rg177]

Good news, but I'm not sure I quite follow. The TPE Advance fare you bought: was that honoured by XC or did you have to get a new ticket for LDS to NCL? If it was (perhaps endorsed by the staff at LDS?) that was already a major breakthrough and indicated that someone, somewhere did indeed regard this as a 'single journey'.

It wasn't actually endorsed by anyone, I just explained to the guard on the 2108 Cross Country to York my situation and he gave me the nod within about two seconds. Same on the 2147 XC to Newcastle.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Wow, rg177, I think you were quite lucky then (although clearly the ticket should have been honoured but some TOCs would have insisted on some kind of endorsement)!

 

[rg177]

Wow, rg177, I think you were quite lucky then (although clearly the ticket should have been honoured but some TOCs would have insisted on some kind of endorsement)!

It probably helped that I was rather blunt about the situation. Literally saying "my train got cancelled, I missed my connection, this was the next available service." Rather than "please sir..." Tired me wasn't up for an argument!

Anyway, I've once asked the Virgin kiosk at York to endorse my ticket when I missed a connection to Leeds, and they told me no and to get on the next Northern service (I was on a Northern advance) When i told them that'd delay me by over an hour they simply shrugged it off.

I approached the guard on the next Manchester TPE, got the nod in seconds and overtook the service I'd missed [emoji38]

 

[sheff1]

Wow, rg177, I think you were quite lucky then (although clearly the ticket should have been honoured but some TOCs would have insisted on some kind of endorsement)!

Which TOCs insist on an endorsement ?

 

[bb21]

I don't think your claim is valid given your circumstances so I agree with those who said you were lucky.

If you are claiming this as one journey, why did you not get the 1830(?) to Newcastle? How late would you have been had you proceeded directly to your intended destination?

But really, if I were handling the claim, you can just have your £3.60, as it simply isn't worth my time digging deeper. The same principle applies to all short-staffed Customer Service departments.

 

[sheff1]

If you are claiming this as one journey, why did you not get the 1830(?) to Newcastle? .

He was accompanying his girlfriend as far as Leeds. Would be impolite, at best, to say"Sod this, love, I'm off to Newcastle. Make your own way home".

 

[furlong]

The obligation to honour tickets of other operators kicks in as follows (from the TSA):

10-2 1 Obligation to carry
(b)If any event occurs which is capable of affecting two or more trains of an Operator and is likely to result in passengers who are using or wish to use those trains being delayed by more than an hour, every other Operator must use its reasonable endeavours to enable the passenger to complete his journey on its trains at no extra charge.

With some caveats:

(2) Exception
The obligation in sub-Clause (1)(b) above only applies if the affected Operator could not reasonably have been expected to make alternative arrangements to prevent the passengers referred to in that sub-Clause being delayed by more than an hour, having regard to the length of any notice it had of the event which affected its train(s).

(3) Additional services
The obligation in sub-Clause (1)(b) above does not require an Operator to run additional trains.

(4) Additional stops
The obligation in sub-Clause (1)(b) above does not require an Operator to make additional stops at Stations if:-
(a) it is not entitled to do so; or
(b) to make such stops would cause a significant disruption to its passengers or to its own commercial arrangements.

and without compensation

(5) Compensation
(a) An Operator which carries passengers pursuant to sub-Clause (1) above will not receive any compensation for doing so unless the delay referred to in that sub-Clause continues for more than 48 hours.

 

[bb21]

He was accompanying his girlfriend as far as Leeds. Would be impolite, at best, to say"Sod this, love, I'm off to Newcastle. Make your own way home".

That's his choice.

In that case I am of the opinion that he cannot claim compensation on the premise of this being "one journey" if the 1830 would have got him there sooner, as that would have been the advice given by Virgin on cancellation of the 1803.

Edit:

As it happens, 2146 arrival had he taken the 1830, so no delay whatsoever if he genuinely wanted to do "one journey" from origin to destination.

 

[rg177]

That would have resulted in me arriving into Newcastle 33 early versus the intended route, and I can't imagine a guard taking too kindly to me taking advantage of the situation. That, and as mentioned, abandoning my girlfriend on the platform to catch the 1835 on her own wouldn't have gone down particularly well. Also, as I was booked in First to Leeds and standard from there, and with the 1830 not calling there, how on earth do you work out where I'm meant to swap classes?

It's a fuzzy situation as one argument would say that I should have travelled alone on the 1830, and one would say that I should forego compensation on the 2043 off Leeds being missed.
That said, the matter is resolved although i haven't actually received the cheque yet. Hopefully it won't take the "28 working days" I was promised, as that would be over 5 weeks!

 

[Clip]

You think a guard would think that you were taking advantage of a situation but you are happy to claim some form of delay repay due to you not actually travelling as best as you could and actually arriving early?

Words fail me yet again.
Female companion or not it appears you delay yourself not the train operating company.