Voyagers Idling at Birmingham New Street

[MCR247]

This week due to engineering works at Water Orton the Cross Country NE-SW services are diverted via Lichfield, with trains scheduled longer dwell times at Derby and New Street for the the trains to pick up the path of what would be the following train for the rest of the journey. Southbound, trains are booked to wait just short of 30 minutes in platform 11. Is it really necessary for all 9/10 engines on a double set to be idling for all this time? Would shutting them down on arrival and restarting say 5 minutes before cause issues?

 

[trundlewagon]

Some of them have certainly been shut down and restarted a few minutes before they leave. 3 of the 4 I've seen over the past few days have, anyway. Was quite the surprise on Saturday evening when I saw it for the first time.

 

[MCR247]

That’s good, maybe there was a specific issue with the one I saw

 

[Crossover]

A few years ago when the diverts were on, I boarded a set which had shut down during the dwell. The problem was that in doing so, everything had stopped working - most of the lights, doors etc. In the coach I was in, at least

 

[Roast Veg]

A few years ago when the diverts were on, I boarded a set which had shut down during the dwell. The problem was that in doing so, everything had stopped working - most of the lights, doors etc. In the coach I was in, at least

Voyagers/Meridians have the power saving mode as described, when engines are turned off. You get the same effect on the MML if you join a service at a terminus.

 

[Oxfordblues]

They certainly shut-down at Reading during extended dwells. But perhaps there's a concern that in cold weather they might not easily restart?

 

[Watershed]

They certainly shut-down at Reading during extended dwells. But perhaps there's a concern that in cold weather they might not easily restart?

Probably more a matter of not wanting to lose too much air (which would prevent the brakes from releasing).

Certainly at most of the termini, it's common practice for Voyagers to have their engines shut down as soon as the train arrives, and to start around 5-10 minutes prior to departure. It's a little unorthodox for all engines on a train to be shut down during the journey, but in the context of a timetabled long dwell it makes sense.

 

[43066]

Voyagers/Meridians have the power saving mode as described, when engines are turned off. You get the same effect on the MML if you join a service at a terminus.

Meridians do, but the feature isn’t active on the Voyagers, as I understand it.

 

[O L Leigh]

It depends on how you shut the engines down. If you just press the engine stop button you will lose a lot of systems, but using the engine shutdown option on the TMS preserves half lighting, doors and so on.

For dwells longer than 15 minutes they really ought to be shut down, but given that most services change crew at New Street it may not be obvious to the inbound driver just how long the train is due to sit. It's also a bit odd to do something like that at the mid-point of a journey and potentially could cause disquiet among the passengers. Voyagers can lose their air relatively quickly but don't generally give trouble restarting.

 

[centraltrains]

I might have had a rant on Twitter about this

I usually get the xx:15 Cross City services, and see the xx:12 Cross Country services depart from platform 11.
2/2 days this week (that I've been) the engines have been left on, with me being greeted by a stronger than usual diesel smell while descending down the stairs to platform 12.
Admittedly, usually I see the xx:12 arrive, so it may just be the suddenness of the diesel smell striking, where as it's probably more gradual when I usual see it arrive.

Would be interested to know how significant/insignificant shutting down the engines would make on fuel consumption (although I imagine it's unlikely exact figures would be known for this?).

 

[43066]

It depends on how you shut the engines down. If you just press the engine stop button you will lose a lot of systems, but using the engine shutdown option on the TMS preserves half lighting, doors and so on.

For dwells longer than 15 minutes they really ought to be shut down, but given that most services change crew at New Street it may not be obvious to the inbound driver just how long the train is due to sit. It's also a bit odd to do something like that at the mid-point of a journey and potentially could cause disquiet among the passengers. Voyagers can lose their air relatively quickly but don't generally give trouble restarting.

On meridians, when you key off, you’re promoted to select either station mode (one engine running on a four or five car, two on a seven car) or normal mode (all engines running) on the TMS.

If no selection is made, the train will enter station mode six minutes after keying off, and will fully shut down after one hour. If “normal mode” is selected, engines will run for one hour, then station mode for one hour, then full shutdown. Obviously, if a key is left on, the current mode will continue indefinitely.

The only time the engine stop button would be used would be to abort the engine start process in some kind of emergency.

 

[O L Leigh]

The only time the engine stop button would be used would be to abort the engine start process in some kind of emergency.

Similarly with Voyagers.

However, if you key out the train automatically goes into an eco mode whereby the engines will shut down one by one over a period of time.