Waiting in a coffee shop without purchasing anything?

[Ianigsy]

I'd be surprised if part of their business model wasn't selling hot drinks to people who want to wait indoors on a cold day.

 

[dcbwhaley]

I'd be surprised if part of their business model wasn't selling hot drinks to people who want to wait indoors on a cold day.

Many stations - Stockport, Crewe, Carlisle are ones I have visited recently - have tables and seating on the platform outside a cafe. I am never sure if it is permissible to sit there without buying from the establishment.
And Manchester Piccadilly has a large upstairs seating area surrounded by several shops.

 

[DanDaDriver]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu? * Insert consonant of choice.

Or how about that they may have previously purchased something, but do not or do not like what is offered that day?

Furthermore, what nobody has seemed to have mentioned yet in relation to it being a business, it is not just an ordinary run of the mill business. It is a large corporate business that does everything possible to get out of paying tax in the UK to the UK government. If it was an individual from a working class background who tried that stunt, it would be highly likely that they would become a house guest of Lizzie Windsor in jail. Perhaps these are the sort of questions that should be raised?

Oh mate.......

 

[HowardGWR]

If I were the Starbucks franchisee (are there those?) I would want people to sit in my cafe and would be actively trying to seek more space for them to encourage them to come in. I would just hope that the aroma of the goodies would produce sales and I would be seeking to sell sweets and nibbles so that customers could buy something that they could take on with them onto the train. If I was Woking station management I would be trying very hard to make this more possible, as at Clapham Junction. Is not Woking station in the throes of a rebuilding project?

 

[Llanigraham]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu? * Insert consonant of choice.

Or how about that they may have previously purchased something, but do not or do not like what is offered that day?

Furthermore, what nobody has seemed to have mentioned yet in relation to it being a business, it is not just an ordinary run of the mill business. It is a large corporate business that does everything possible to get out of paying tax in the UK to the UK government. If it was an individual from a working class background who tried that stunt, it would be highly likely that they would become a house guest of Lizzie Windsor in jail. Perhaps these are the sort of questions that should be raised?

All totally irrelevant!

 

[Bantamzen]

If I were the Starbucks franchisee (are there those?) I would want people to sit in my cafe and would be actively trying to seek more space for them to encourage them to come in. I would just hope that the aroma of the goodies would produce sales and I would be seeking to sell sweets and nibbles so that customers could buy something that they could take on with them onto the train. If I was Woking station management I would be trying very hard to make this more possible, as at Clapham Junction. Is not Woking station in the throes of a rebuilding project?

You'd hope people would buy? What if they didn't and just took up all the seats leaving no room for paying customers?

 

[talldave]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu? * Insert consonant of choice.

Or how about that they may have previously purchased something, but do not or do not like what is offered that day?

Furthermore, what nobody has seemed to have mentioned yet in relation to it being a business, it is not just an ordinary run of the mill business. It is a large corporate business that does everything possible to get out of paying tax in the UK to the UK government. If it was an individual from a working class background who tried that stunt, it would be highly likely that they would become a house guest of Lizzie Windsor in jail. Perhaps these are the sort of questions that should be raised?

It doesn't take 20 minutes to determine there's nothing suitable and leave the premises.

What's an ordinary run of the mill business?

It might be frustrating that some companies manage to keep their tax bills down, but as long as they're operating within UK tax law, then it's the tax law that's at fault if it's felt they're not paying their way.

I put effort into minimising my taxes to ensure that I pay as little as possible, whilst keeping within the law. Should questions be asked about this on RailUK forums?

 

[jon0844]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu? * Insert consonant of choice.

Or how about that they may have previously purchased something, but do not or do not like what is offered that day?

Furthermore, what nobody has seemed to have mentioned yet in relation to it being a business, it is not just an ordinary run of the mill business. It is a large corporate business that does everything possible to get out of paying tax in the UK to the UK government. If it was an individual from a working class background who tried that stunt, it would be highly likely that they would become a house guest of Lizzie Windsor in jail. Perhaps these are the sort of questions that should be raised?

How much extra tax do you voluntarily pay each year?

 

[DarloRich]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu? * Insert consonant of choice.

Or how about that they may have previously purchased something, but do not or do not like what is offered that day?

Furthermore, what nobody has seemed to have mentioned yet in relation to it being a business, it is not just an ordinary run of the mill business. It is a large corporate business that does everything possible to get out of paying tax in the UK to the UK government. If it was an individual from a working class background who tried that stunt, it would be highly likely that they would become a house guest of Lizzie Windsor in jail. Perhaps these are the sort of questions that should be raised?

Eh? What on earth has any of this got to with this thread? Pointless whataboutery!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Approaching this from a different angle, if the staff of Star(b*)ucks have issues with intending passengers using the facilities without purchasing anything, what is to say that the passenger does not want anything or having had a look at what is on offer, they do not like what is on the menu?

Then they don't occupy the premises. The seating in cafes etc is provided for the use of customers making a purchase. If one does not like the products on sale, one does not make a purchase and one does not occupy a seat.

I very much doubt that there is anyone in the world who cannot stomach a bottle of mineral water, though, even if it is a total waste of money/plastic compared with a reusable bottle of tap water.

FWIW, talking of identifying Starbucks seating, there are only two styles of seating in Starbucks outlets in the UK (the original design, and the newer wood-based design that looks straight out of a department store or bus station cafe in about 1985[1]). They are distinctive enough that it's easy to tell it's not general railway waiting room seating.

[1] Or Bedford Bus Station Cafe until the mid 2000s.

 

[xotGD]

Then they don't occupy the premises. The seating in cafes etc is provided for the use of customers making a purchase. If one does not like the products on sale, one does not make a purchase and one does not occupy a seat.

I very much doubt that there is anyone in the world who cannot stomach a bottle of mineral water, though, even if it is a total waste of money/plastic compared with a reusable bottle of tap water.

FWIW, talking of identifying Starbucks seating, there are only two styles of seating in Starbucks outlets in the UK (the original design, and the newer wood-based design that looks straight out of a department store or bus station cafe in about 1985[1]). They are distinctive enough that it's easy to tell it's not general railway waiting room seating.

[1] Or Bedford Bus Station Cafe until the mid 2000s.

Oh no! The never ending wibble about seats has now extended from those on the train to those in the waiting room & coffee shop!!!

Some coffee shops have jugs of water and a tray of glasses for people to help themselves. If you just poured yourself some water, could you then take a seat?

 

[DarloRich]

If you just poured yourself some water, could you then take a seat?

come along now this is getting silly!

 

[FGW_DID]

come along now this is getting silly!

 

[BRX]

Perhaps if Starbucks start complaining to the station owners that their outlet is losing money because it is crowded out by people who don't want to stand in the freezing cold, thanks to the lack of adequate waiting facilities, then perhaps that would motivate the station owners to provide a proper waiting room.

So while it might be within Starbucks' rights to ask people to leave I'd encourage people to continue to use it as a waiting area if there's no other option. Let Starbucks and the station operator sort this issue between them.

Do we think that protecting Starbucks' ability to be profitable is a more worthy aim than letting people wait for their train somewhere warm?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some coffee shops have jugs of water and a tray of glasses for people to help themselves. If you just poured yourself some water, could you then take a seat?

I've addressed that one upthread - free water is for use of customers who purchase other items or at a push those in a group with them e.g. a designated driver in a pub who doesn't like the soft drink options on offer (often all too sweet).

If you want to sit in privately leased/rented/whatever commercial premises, buy something.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do we think that protecting Starbucks' ability to be profitable is a more worthy aim than letting people wait for their train somewhere warm?

If you think there are inadequate waiting facilities at the station, complain to the TOC and encourage others to do so. Starbucks presumably took over the unit in good faith, it's not them you have the beef[1] with.

[1] Well, you might for other reasons, but those are wholly irrelevant.

 

[BRX]

If you think there are inadequate waiting facilities at the station, complain to the TOC and encourage others to do so. Starbucks presumably took over the unit in good faith, it's not them you have the beef[1] with.

[1] Well, you might for other reasons, but those are wholly irrelevant.

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait. The TOC have created the problem where there are conflicting interests: passengers comfort and Starbucks' profitability. Starbucks are well able to stand up for themselves. By all means passengers can also complain but if the TOC starts receiving complaints from Starbucks that gives them a pretty good incentive to sort things out.

If Starbucks can put pressure on passengers (by asking them to leave) in an attempt to resolve the conflict, why shouldn't passengers push back?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait.

As the vast majority of railway stations do not have "somewhere warm to wait", this is not a reasonable expectation. Put your coat on!

If Starbucks can put pressure on passengers (by asking them to leave) in an attempt to resolve the conflict, why shouldn't passengers push back?

Well, if you want to turn civil trespass into criminal assault, feel free. But otherwise I would be supportive of them asking you to leave their private property if you are not going to become a customer by purchasing something, and in their use of reasonable force if you fail to do so.

It doesn't matter if it's Starbucks, Costa or an independent cafe (the latter are very common on the railway still), cough up or get out. Simple.

 

[FGW_DID]

The sense of 'entitlement' is strong with some in this thread!

There is, according to the OP, waiting facilities provided but it was "full". Now whether that is for 5 or 50 people, if its full its full, go stand on the platform with the others who cant get in or just buy a brew from the coffee shop and sit in there!

 

[dcbwhaley]

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait. The TOC have created the problem where there are conflicting interests: passengers comfort and Starbucks' profitability. Starbucks are well able to stand up for themselves. By all means passengers can also complain but if the TOC starts receiving complaints from Starbucks that gives them a pretty good incentive to sort things out.

If Starbucks can put pressure on passengers (by asking them to leave) in an attempt to resolve the conflict, why shouldn't passengers push back?

I don't think that a passenger should have an expectations, let alone reasonable ones, that there will be some where warm to wait. Hundreds of small stations have nothing more than a simple, semi open and unheated, shelter.
My local station has a wonderful warm cosy waiting room complete with books and posters. But it is only open from 7am to 1 pm. Cold winter eveneings you have to huddle in a cold little "bus shelter"

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What has this thread descended to....

Respectfully to the OP - buy a cup of tea and suck it up

Who remembers the cold winter of 1976 (or 1977) when there was lots of snow and localized power cuts? I walked 3 miles to school every day (they didn't shut schools in my day...)

Now, that was cold....

 

[Darandio]

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait.

There are a number of stations that have nowhere warm to wait, the nearest source of warmth at some of these locations are old station buildings that have been converted to private housing. By your logic I assume I should go and sit myself down on their sofa?

 

[Ken H]

What has this thread descended to....

Respectfully to the OP - buy a cup of tea and suck it up

Who remembers the cold winter of 1976 (or 1977) when there was lots of snow and localized power cuts? I walked 3 miles to school every day (they didn't shut schools in my day...)

Now, that was cold....

aye and we used to 'ave dripping on cardboard fer us tea. And dad carried his bike t'mill to save on tyre rubber when he worked 25 hours a day there. but we were 'appy.

Sorry. couldn't resist.

 

[Bantamzen]

Perhaps if Starbucks start complaining to the station owners that their outlet is losing money because it is crowded out by people who don't want to stand in the freezing cold, thanks to the lack of adequate waiting facilities, then perhaps that would motivate the station owners to provide a proper waiting room.

So while it might be within Starbucks' rights to ask people to leave I'd encourage people to continue to use it as a waiting area if there's no other option. Let Starbucks and the station operator sort this issue between them.

Do we think that protecting Starbucks' ability to be profitable is a more worthy aim than letting people wait for their train somewhere warm?

Its already been addressed, but to reiterate it is not Starbucks', or indeed any other station-side businesses' issue. They simply lease the space in order to offer a place to purchase drinks, snacks etc and for those customers to use their facilities. Whether they should be there in the first instance is a matter for either NR or the TOC who operate the station

I don't think that a passenger should have an expectations, let alone reasonable ones, that there will be some where warm to wait. Hundreds of small stations have nothing more than a simple, semi open and unheated, shelter.
My local station has a wonderful warm cosy waiting room complete with books and posters. But it is only open from 7am to 1 pm. Cold winter eveneings you have to huddle in a cold little "bus shelter"

Indeed, at many stations the primary means of keeping warm is to wrap up and keep moving. Though to be fair at my local station, if there's a long delay its only a minute walk back home to make a cup of coffee (I won't be inviting everyone else to wander around my home to keep warm though! )

What has this thread descended to....

Respectfully to the OP - buy a cup of tea and suck it up

Who remembers the cold winter of 1976 (or 1977) when there was lots of snow and localized power cuts? I walked 3 miles to school every day (they didn't shut schools in my day...)

Now, that was cold....

It was a little later than 1976/77, but as a child I often had to clear the driveway & help with the local street before then walking to school!!

 

[dcbwhaley]

What has this thread descended to....

Respectfully to the OP - buy a cup of tea and suck it up

Who remembers the cold winter of 1976 (or 1977) when there was lots of snow and localized power cuts? I walked 3 miles to school every day (they didn't shut schools in my day...)

Now, that was cold....

1978-9: the so called winter of discontent. But walking to school would have been a luxury for us. In 1963 we lived in an igloo in the school playground for six weeks.

 

[philthetube]

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait. The TOC have created the problem where there are conflicting interests: passengers comfort and Starbucks' profitability. Starbucks are well able to stand up for themselves. By all means passengers can also complain but if the TOC starts receiving complaints from Starbucks that gives them a pretty good incentive to sort things out.

If Starbucks can put pressure on passengers (by asking them to leave) in an attempt to resolve the conflict, why shouldn't passengers push back?

By all means push back but push the right people

 

[theblackwatch]

Indeed, at many stations the primary means of keeping warm is to wrap up and keep moving. Though to be fair at my local station, if there's a long delay its only a minute walk back home to make a cup of coffee (I won't be inviting everyone else to wander around my home to keep warm though! )

We don't need inviting. According to the OP, we can just turn up, go in to your house and loiter!

 

[Bantamzen]

We don't need inviting. According to the OP, we can just turn up, go in to your house and loiter!

You'll have to run quickly then, I won't be hanging around in the blumming cold for long.....

 

[BRX]

I don't think that a passenger should have an expectations, let alone reasonable ones, that there will be some where warm to wait.

I do. Not necessarily at small unstaffed halts, but at a very busy, fully staffed, mainline station where lots of people change trains, like Woking?

 

[DarloRich]

Passengers also use the station 'in good faith' and reasonable expectation that there will be someone warm to wait.

No they don't! They use it "in good faith" and "reasonable exception" that a train will turn up. How, for instance, do I follow your guidelines at my station which has a bus shelter to wait in..........................................

The sense of 'entitlement' is strong with some in this thread!

There is, according to the OP, waiting facilities provided but it was "full". Now whether that is for 5 or 50 people, if its full its full, go stand on the platform with the others who cant get in or just buy a brew from the coffee shop and sit in there!

is the correct answer - why cant people grasp that very simple concept? Waiting room full? Tough. Buy a good coat and/or a brew.