Was my 3-car 185 "half a train", or was it booked to be 3 cars?

[YorksLad12]

(Mods - please move if you feel appropriate, this felt like the most obvious sub-forum to me.)

I was thinking about Tracy Brabin's comments on Wednesday after her mayors meeting in Manchester, and my own experience travelling from Leeds to Manchester yesterday. A 3-car 185 did the run from Redcar to Manchester Airport, leaving Leeds at 14.45; the next train from Leeds, the 15.07 Hull to Piccadilly departure, was also 3 cars.

Was my train short-formed, or was it always supposed to be 3 cars? And how are we supposed to know? It didn't say on the app or RTT if yesterday's train was short formed any more than it said my return today was strengthed (2x3-car set).

I've heard LNER announcements that say "This service is formed of X coaches today", which implies it's formed of a different (larger or lower) number on other days, but other operators will just say "This service has X carriages" or similar - a statement of fact, not necessarily an amendment.

Are we so used to seeing 5-car 802s, the Mk5a coaches and doubled 185s on the North TransPennine route that we *assume* a 3-car set is "half a train", when in fact it's exactly what you're supposed to be getting?

 

[507020]

With TPE, I was under the impression that all 185 services are now booked 6 cars except the Piccadilly - Huddersfield and Leeds - Huddersfield stoppers. I saw 3 car 185s twice yesterday though. Once on a Redcar and the other at Oxford Road P1 on CLC route relearning.

 

[800001]

(Mods - please move if you feel appropriate, this felt like the most obvious sub-forum to me.)

I was thinking about Tracy Brabin's comments on Wednesday after her mayors meeting in Manchester, and my own experience travelling from Leeds to Manchester yesterday. A 3-car 185 did the run from Redcar to Manchester Airport, leaving Leeds at 14.45; the next train from Leeds, the 15.07 Hull to Piccadilly departure, was also 3 cars.

Was my train short-formed, or was it always supposed to be 3 cars? And how are we supposed to know? It didn't say on the app or RTT if yesterday's train was short formed any more than it said my return today was strengthed (2x3-car set).

I've heard LNER announcements that say "This service is formed of X coaches today", which implies it's formed of a different (larger or lower) number on other days, but other operators will just say "This service has X carriages" or similar - a statement of fact, not necessarily an amendment.

Are we so used to seeing 5-car 802s, the Mk5a coaches and doubled 185s on the North TransPennine route that we *assume* a 3-car set is "half a train", when in fact it's exactly what you're supposed to be getting?

LNER announcements will always say what the formation is on the day, it won’t distinguish between a short formed service or a normal length.

I’m lead to believe all 185s are meant to run as 6 car sets.

But they like all tocs are suffering driver availability due to multiple reasons, I would say yours was short formed due to no driver available to bring and couple the extra set.

 

[hexagon789]

I thought TPE posted all train length alterations on their website?

For instance it's showing the 1807 and 1907 off Redcar as both running 3-car vice 6.

 

[Leeds1970]

Tracy Brabin's comments on Wednesday about her train to Manchester being cancelled has upset a lot of people (over 500 last time i looked)
the reason her train was cancelled was sadly due to a fatality in the Morley area a couple of hours earlier. I appreciate Transpennine services can sometimes dip below what is expected but it was wrong to point the finger at the train operator and more to the point showed a total lack of respect to the deceased his/her family and the traincrew involved.

 

[YorksLad12]

I thought TPE posted all train length alterations on their website?

For instance it's showing the 1807 and 1907 off Redcar as both running 3-car vice 6.

That's kind-of making my point: I didn't spot that (and I can't immediately see it), and it requires us to do the research. It would be more helpful if the information was pushed to passengers; clearly on the website or app, or at the station, so that passengers with flexibility of travel could choose to go with a strengthened service rather than a short-formed one. If we knew which services were being strengthened or short-formed in advance, of course!

Tracy Brabin's comments on Wednesday about her train to Manchester being cancelled has upset a lot of people (over 500 last time i looked)
the reason her train was cancelled was sadly due to a fatality in the Morley area a couple of hours earlier. I appreciate Transpennine services can sometimes dip below what is expected but it was wrong to point the finger at the train operator and more to the point showed a total lack of respect to the deceased his/her family and the traincrew involved.

I thought her tweet was on her return, and it was cancelled on the way out? Either way, it doesn't really explain why her train was 3 carriages, unless there was a unit substitution - I don't work for a TOC, so I don't know how that works. But if her chosen journey was always going to be a 3-car set, it was always going to be busy at that time of the day. Which comes back to the issue of not knowing how long or short your train is, until it turns up - which is too late.

 

[Halish Railway]

Single 185s are booked on the Huddersfield to Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly stoppers, as well as the earth morning Scarborough to Leeds and return service.

Since the start of the pandemic all but one of the Manchester Airport to Redcar Central services have been booked as a double 185, one of the workings of this single set being 1P71 10:40 Manchester Airport to Redcar Central.

 

[RHolmes]

I’m lead to believe all 185s are meant to run as 6 car sets.

That’s incorrect.

There are several trains which are booked a single 3 car 185 on Hull, Cleethorpes and Redcar services (and the overnight/evening Scarborough)

Hull services are 3 car off-peak Monday to Friday, with Saturday services strengthened where platform space is available at Manchester Piccadilly.

Single 185s are booked on the Huddersfield to Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly stoppers, as well as the earth morning Scarborough to Leeds and return service.

In addition to most Hull services and the occasional Cleethorpes mid-day service

 

[headshot119]

I’m lead to believe all 185s are meant to run as 6 car sets.

I'm afraid this gen is "platform end" in the grand scheme of things.



( Image shows a green to red scaled dial, with the needle pointing beyond the red area, the areas are labelled Wibble, Gen, Fiasco, My source said, and platform end )

Plenty of single 185s diagrammed on several circuits.

 

[800001]

I'm afraid this gen is "platform end" in the grand scheme of things.

View attachment 124716

( Image shows a green to red scaled dial, with the needle pointing beyond the red area, the areas are labelled Wibble, Gen, Fiasco, My source said, and platform end )

Plenty of single 185s diagrammed on several circuits.

I mean you could of just wrote incorrect without going for the full picture above

 

[Guard86]

ok. You're wrong.

 

[800001]

ok. You're wrong.

Cheers