Watch out for your railcard app

[Sad Sprinter]

I have my railcard on the iOS app on my phone, but because my storage is at capacity my phone "offloads unused apps" to save space. It does so without warning and I have noticed it deleting the railcard app without my knowing, then often not having the amount of storage left to download it again. Thankfully I haven't been caught out by it when checking tickets, but watch out before you catch a train that the app hasn't been deleted otherwise you'll probably get in trouble if you can't show you a railcard when asked.

 

[Merseysider]

If you're using an iPhone you should be able to disable this by going to Settings -> General -> iPhone Storage -> Offload Unused Apps -> Disable.

On a side note if you have HDR enabled for photos you can go back and delete the non-HDR photos (and then again from Recently Deleted) to free up a tonne of storage space.

Also worth turning off Background App Refresh (via the same path as before) - often, app updates involve an increased storage size for apps.

P.S. Would also recommend paying for iCloud storage - my plan is a couple of quid a month and is sufficient to store all the photos my iPhone can't fit.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

I’ve noticed a few people having this issue recently when checking tickets on my trains, some have a right hassle getting it re-downloaded too and logged in/download code entered to show their cards

 

[Parham Wood]

This illustrates my issue with phone ticket apps. It is fine for those people who understand the technology but many do not. We are being pushed more and more to use phone apps for tickets yet the legislation does not allow some tolerance for things that can go wrong. Mobile phone providers are not concerned with what happens if the ticket app does not work due to perhaps a phone upgrade or even an upgrade changing default settings which does happen. Sadly the poor user can end up with a criminal record or a big penalty. My elderly father in law this week was complaining that he could set his Google Map directions from home to destination but it would not set the route back home. The reason was that his mobile data was not working (he used Wi-Fi at home) but we could not get it turned back on so he took the phone into the local network provider who concluded a faulty SIM. I don't know if you need the network once you have bought your ticket on the app but it does illustrate how things can go wrong. OK most people have no trouble with mobile ticket apps but my case is the legislation does not allow for technology malfunctions.

 

[Adam Williams]

This illustrates my issue with phone ticket apps. It is fine for those people who understand the technology but many do not. We are being pushed more and more to use phone apps for tickets yet the legislation does not allow some tolerance for things that can go wrong. Mobile phone providers are not concerned with what happens if the ticket app does not work due to perhaps a phone upgrade or even an upgrade changing default settings which does happen. Sadly the poor user can end up with a criminal record or a big penalty. My elderly father in law this week was complaining that he could set his Google Map directions from home to destination but it would not set the route back home. The reason was that his mobile data was not working (he used Wi-Fi at home) but we could not get it turned back on so he took the phone into the local network provider who concluded a faulty SIM. I don't know if you need the network once you have bought your ticket on the app but it does illustrate how things can go wrong. OK most people have no trouble with mobile ticket apps but my case is the legislation does not allow for technology malfunctions.

It's a reasonable point (particularly for e.g. E-Tickets), but what I would also offer is:

• Train operators do allow for one occasion per year where passengers are unable to present their railcard.
• I've done some digging into this, and I've yet to find conclusive evidence that iOS enables the "Offload Unused Apps" functionality by default. @Sad Sprinter - did you opt into this behaviour? It's off on the test iPhone I occasionally (and unfortunately) have to use which makes me confident it's opt-in.
  • Even in the case where an app gets off-loaded, iOS should keep the app's data and allow you to reinstall the railcards app. I would hope that an understanding revenue inspector/guard would be willing to wait a few minutes, provided there is data, for you to do this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Being the owner of a 64GB iPad Air which gets a bit tight on space if you download some TV shows or films to watch on the train, I can confirm it doesn't turn that feature on by default, but it does offer it if space is getting tight, most notably when an OS upgrade downloads, and so it's very easy to just go "yes" by default and not realise the impact it might have.

It's never been on nor even offered (that I recall) on my 256GB iPhone 13 Mini as that doesn't run short of space. It definitely isn't on by default.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It's a reasonable point (particularly for e.g. E-Tickets), but what I would also offer is:

• Train operators do allow for one occasion per year where passengers are unable to present their railcard.
• I've done some digging into this, and I've yet to find conclusive evidence that iOS enables the "Offload Unused Apps" functionality by default. @Sad Sprinter - did you opt into this behaviour? It's off on the test iPhone I occasionally (and unfortunately) have to use which makes me confident it's opt-in.
  • Even in the case where an app gets off-loaded, iOS should keep the app's data and allow you to reinstall the railcards app. I would hope that an understanding revenue inspector/guard would be willing to wait a few minutes, provided there is data, for you to do this.

What Bletchley said unfortunately, I opted in due to having several megabytes of storage left on my phone. I'll need to opt-back out of the feature as it deletes some useful apps including Uber!

 

[Adam Williams]

It seems like a bit of a half-assed feature from Apple, frankly. There are people running into this with e.g. first-aid guide apps.

 

[jfollows]

This illustrates my issue with phone ticket apps. It is fine for those people who understand the technology but many do not. We are being pushed more and more to use phone apps for tickets yet the legislation does not allow some tolerance for things that can go wrong. Mobile phone providers are not concerned with what happens if the ticket app does not work due to perhaps a phone upgrade or even an upgrade changing default settings which does happen. Sadly the poor user can end up with a criminal record or a big penalty. My elderly father in law this week was complaining that he could set his Google Map directions from home to destination but it would not set the route back home. The reason was that his mobile data was not working (he used Wi-Fi at home) but we could not get it turned back on so he took the phone into the local network provider who concluded a faulty SIM. I don't know if you need the network once you have bought your ticket on the app but it does illustrate how things can go wrong. OK most people have no trouble with mobile ticket apps but my case is the legislation does not allow for technology malfunctions.

It's not the technology per se, it's the implementation of the technology that's the problem. The applications are not properly tested, so they do not always work, and their implementation is often further flawed by being written by people who do not understand all the rules and are not given a complete specification of them.
Which is why, after working in the IT industry since 1980, I won't touch these "apps" until they're more reliable, if I have a choice.

 

[Trainguy34]

Could they not just have it so that it came up on your screen so you had to manually press a button for it to uninstall the app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems like a bit of a half-assed feature from Apple, frankly. There are people running into this with e.g. first-aid guide apps.

It's a very useful feature with a lower capacity iDevice, not least because it doesn't remove the app data so you can quickly get it back as was by just tapping on it, provided you have a signal or wi-fi, unlike if you uninstall the app completely.

It would probably make sense to have an option to exempt a specific app from it, though, which it doesn't (I just looked).

Could they not just have it so that it came up on your screen so you had to manually press a button for it to uninstall the app.

It asks you if you want to do it or not, you can say no, but most click yes by default. It only happens if you're very close to capacity.

 

[Adtrainsam]

Can you add railcards to Apple/Google wallet from any of the apps? If not, I think it’s a missed opportunity. Would prevent a lot of these situations from occurring when apps offload/log out etc. I added my Tesco Clubcard to Apple wallet and was able to offload the Tesco app, whilst still having the Clubcard available.

 

[Buzby]

I won’t use a digital railcard - not for the reason that it might disappear because the user is running out of memory and toggled the offload function, but because Murphy’s Law invariably will apply. Even when arriving at a station, and logging into WiFi my ScotRail app - in which I had already downloaded and activated my ticket on the way there - wanted me to fully log in to the app again making my tickets inaccessible. Standing on a platform with an approaching train pushed up my blood pressure a few notches. Which email address has I used to register and what was the passwor?

Fortunately my iPhone also stores the login and password combinations so I found the right one and was back in business. Now, I take a screen grab (photo) of my current journey ticket so this scan be scanned as usual even if my app is AWOL. BUT, I also took a Pic of my railcard in case it was lost or stolen, but I would assume it would be at the inspector’s discretion whether to allow or challenge it.

 

[duffield]

I realise that this is not helpful to people who can't afford a new or higher capacity phone, but as someone with considerable IT experience I would personally try to avoid filling the storage on any device, phone or otherwise, above around (say) the 80% mark. As you get closer and closer to 100% performance may deteriorate and erratic behaviour may increase, even apart from any issues due to official space saving tools.

If your phone supports it, micro SD cards can be a cheap way to offload some of the internal storage contents (I keep locally stored music on an SD card for example).

 

[jfollows]

Fortunately my iPhone also stores the login and password combinations so I found the right one and was back in business. Now, I take a screen grab (photo) of my current journey ticket so this scan be scanned as usual even if my app is AWOL. BUT, I also took a Pic of my railcard in case it was lost or stolen, but I would assume it would be at the inspector’s discretion whether to allow or challenge it.

Whereas pictures of barcodes on e-tickets are fine, pictures of railcards generally aren't, and pictures of railcard apps generally aren't either because the app has extra security features which don't show up on a picture. As to pictures of a plastic railcard, you'd be lucky to have it accepted but maybe a non-zero chance.

 

[rs101]

But if you open the app occasionally (eg to show the railcard when asked or just to check the expiry date), then it'll be marked by IOS as an active app and so won't be archived off to free up space. At least that's what Android seems to do.

I personally don't have a problem using apps for travel - far easier usually than fiddling around with paper tickets. For my last trip to France, I managed to use the train from Essex to Liverpool Street, underground to St Pancras, Eurostar to Lille, then unlock and drive away in a hire car, all using apps. We both had the apps on our phones, so had backups in case of any problems.

Did the same a couple of years ago, with train/DLR to London City, flight to Geneva, then travelled around Switzerland by bus, train and boat, again using just a few apps (one to cover all 3 transport methods there).

I've had far fewer problems with etickets than I have with paper ones. The only real issue is the lack of barcode readers at Stratford, so have to request to be let through the barriers. But that's less of an issue than the usual one of paper tickets failing to read properly at some stations, but working perfectly at others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if you open the app occasionally (eg to show the railcard when asked or just to check the expiry date), then it'll be marked by IOS as an active app and so won't be archived off to free up space. At least that's what Android seems to do.

Yes, correct. It works out how much space needs freeing up and goes from the app you've used least recently.

 

[Argyle 1980]

During Covid when wasn't travelling much I didn't bother renewing my DPRC in advance as wasn't travelling much and was going to wait for Tesco vouchers to get a three year renewal and just use my D&C railcard locally until then. I used the DPRC on it's exact expirey date and thought nothing of it until until Avanti asked to see it at Euston before boarding the train to MK. Opened the app on S20 and the card was shown as expired even though I knew it still had this final days validity on it. I found the receipt in email archive which proved the card was purchased 364 days ago and that the day in question was the final day which the gateline fully accepted.

 

[furlong]

@Argyle 1980 That's a well-known bug in the railcard app, that cards are shown as expired a day early and it's very disappointing that they seem uninterested in fixing it.

 

[Adam Williams]

Can you add railcards to Apple/Google wallet from any of the apps?

Apple/Google Wallet don't support implementing what's required of a Digital Railcard that follows the spec.

 

[SargeNpton]

But if you open the app occasionally (eg to show the railcard when asked or just to check the expiry date), then it'll be marked by IOS as an active app and so won't be archived off to free up space. At least that's what Android seems to do.

I personally don't have a problem using apps for travel - far easier usually than fiddling around with paper tickets. For my last trip to France, I managed to use the train from Essex to Liverpool Street, underground to St Pancras, Eurostar to Lille, then unlock and drive away in a hire car, all using apps. We both had the apps on our phones, so had backups in case of any problems.

Did the same a couple of years ago, with train/DLR to London City, flight to Geneva, then travelled around Switzerland by bus, train and boat, again using just a few apps (one to cover all 3 transport methods there).

I've had far fewer problems with etickets than I have with paper ones. The only real issue is the lack of barcode readers at Stratford, so have to request to be let through the barriers. But that's less of an issue than the usual one of paper tickets failing to read properly at some stations, but working perfectly at others.

One day in August 2023, when the temperatures were very high, my phone overheated and shut itself down in the middle of the afternoon. Wasn't until 12 hours later that it was able to be switched on again, and perhaps 24-36 hours before all the functions were restored.

There are other instances where a phone, or its apps, may not work. The expression "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind.

 

[Buzby]

Apple/Google Wallet don't support implementing what's required of a Digital Railcard that follows the spec.

Surely it is far more likely that far from the phone wallets not supporting digital railcards, it will be the implementation of the standard in the UK that runs contrary to the many countries that do? The list of global transport operators is most impressive. Even the Scottish Scotia (NEC) is non compliant and has been that way for years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apple/Google Wallet don't support implementing what's required of a Digital Railcard that follows the spec.

And quite right they don't. It's the railway that needs to do what it did for e-tickets and accept that some enforcement will be retrospective. PKPASS is an intentionally simple, open standard, for instance.

The electronic Railcard apps are just the evils of m-tickets all over again, as are the "s-tickets" for seasons.

 

[rs101]

One day in August 2023, when the temperatures were very high, my phone overheated and shut itself down in the middle of the afternoon. Wasn't until 12 hours later that it was able to be switched on again, and perhaps 24-36 hours before all the functions were restored.

There are other instances where a phone, or its apps, may not work. The expression "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind.

Mine was fine in Switzerland in 40 degree temperatures and in London in the rain. However, I've had several paper tickets fail due to moisture and simply being in the wallet for a few weeks (usually failing when I'm trying to get home after a long flight..)

I do take my wallet with me (with cards and usually some cash), but simply find the phone is more convenient and quicker.

 

[sor]

It's not the technology per se, it's the implementation of the technology that's the problem. The applications are not properly tested, so they do not always work, and their implementation is often further flawed by being written by people who do not understand all the rules and are not given a complete specification of them.
Which is why, after working in the IT industry since 1980, I won't touch these "apps" until they're more reliable, if I have a choice.

And worse still, the apps are treated as infallible and a particularly officious guard/RPI might question why the card did not appear when you needed to show it.

I hated having to use an app when I had the 26-30 (which cannot be issued physically) and I very much enjoy going back to plastic with the Network Railcard.

 

[Huntergreed]

A poorly programmed application combined with heavily enforced, strict-liability based legislation is a recipe for disaster for customers and it's something I will be avoiding for as long as possible.

Indeed, I chose to forego the discount I could have got through TrainLine on my 16-25 Railcard purely to ensure I could get a physical, plastic card, as I don't trust either the app to work well enough or for a rogue RPI/TOC to pass up on an easy prosecution opportunity due to this.

I will be buying another 16-25 railcard on the day before my 24th Birthday which should take me to 27, so hopefully plenty of time yet before I ever need to get a digital one (in the optimistic hope that the plastic ones are still on offer for 16-25 by then).

 

[1D54]

If you're using an iPhone you should be able to disable this by going to Settings -> General -> iPhone Storage -> Offload Unused Apps -> Disable.

And everytime i do that it wipes out all my apps and i have to spend hours putting them back on the phone!

 

[Parham Wood]

It's a reasonable point (particularly for e.g. E-Tickets), but what I would also offer is:

• Train operators do allow for one occasion per year where passengers are unable to present their railcard.
• I've done some digging into this, and I've yet to find conclusive evidence that iOS enables the "Offload Unused Apps" functionality by default. @Sad Sprinter - did you opt into this behaviour? It's off on the test iPhone I occasionally (and unfortunately) have to use which makes me confident it's opt-in.
  • Even in the case where an app gets off-loaded, iOS should keep the app's data and allow you to reinstall the railcards app. I would hope that an understanding revenue inspector/guard would be willing to wait a few minutes, provided there is data, for you to do this.

I think many of us would be in panic mode if the app had to be installed when asked for a ticket!

 

[Turtle]

I think many of us would be in panic mode if the app had to be installed when asked for a ticket!

I think the detailed and complex correspondence on this thread illustrates the difficulties in becoming wholly reliant on electronic devices whilst being subject to possible legal and monetary sanctions should an irregularity occur.

 

[rs101]

I think many of us would be in panic mode if the app had to be installed when asked for a ticket!

Luckily, most TOC etickets don't require any apps - they're simply PDFs which can be accessed via email or downloaded into the wallets on Android/IOS.