Watford Junction DMU in 1960s and 1970s

[thaitransit]

I'm looking for some information on the Watford Junction Diesel rail car service. I'm mostly after the period from 1950 to 1975. Any photos especially from around the stonebridge area of the DMU.

Just for information sake does the Euston to Watford junction Diesel rail car still operate today?

 

[DXMachina]

Last time I saw the DMU at Watford it was a class 104 in all over blue. Usually used on Watford-St.Albans services but it sometimes made it to Croxley Green, apparently.

Periodically it'd hum thru Hemel hempstead nonstop, presumably heading home to bletchley or somewhere like it for servicing or exchange.

It definitely ran Euston-MK suburban services on occasion (perhaps in lieu of other stock) as I've gone home to Hemel on it at least once. Dont know if it ever ran other euston services but Euston-St.Albans sounds plausible.

 

[Trog]

Dont know if it ever ran other euston services but Euston-St.Albans sounds plausible.

Not to since before the car park was built, as since then the only access onto the Abbey Branch has been via a ground frame and siding 2 in Watford Yard. I think that was done during the period the OP was asking about so Euston - St Albans as a through service would only have been likely in the earlier part of that time frame.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Slightly after your timeframe, but probably relevant to the last bit of it...
The RCTS 1977 coaching stock book has the following DMUs allocated to Bletchley, which would have covered the Bletchley-Bedford and Watford-St Albans branches, the latter only electrified in the late 1980s:

five 2-car Cravens class 105 (MBS+DTCL)
M50390-94 + M56145-49

plus one single car Gloucester class 122 (MBS) or "bubble car"
M55009

There's a potted history of the St Albans branch at:
http://www.abbeyline.org.uk/routehistory.htm
showing a BRCW class 104 DMU in 1983, so I don't know how long the Cravens units were allocated to Bletchley

Cravens pics at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5717167444/
(1972)
and
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6274283628/
(1971)

 

[Taunton]

There were also the pioneer 4-wheel railbus units (Pacer predecessors!) which ran Watford-St Albans and also Harrow-Belmont in 1955-61.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100807100658/http://railcar.co.uk/hisOthers/ACVintro.htm

The Bletchley-based dmus took over from them, various types until electrification. The route always had a large schools traffic so even in dmu days four car trains were required, the second 2-car unit standing at Watford outside these times.

Until (maybe 1970?) Bricket Wood had a passing loop, and two trains were in operation, with a third on the Belmont line until this closed in 1964.

 

[John Webb]

According to "The Watford to St Albans Branch" by S C Jenkins (Oakwood Press, 2nd Ed., 2008, ISBN 0 85361 675 7) the Bricket Wood loop was locked out of use in 1966. But I can't find a reference to when the loop was lifted.

The same book explains that Watford Junction didn't have a diesel depot, and as previous posters have said, quite a range of units supplied by Bletchley worked on the line.

 

[DXMachina]

There were also the pioneer 4-wheel railbus units (Pacer predecessors!) which ran Watford-St Albans and also Harrow-Belmont in 1955-61.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100807100658/http://railcar.co.uk/hisOthers/ACVintro.htm.

Interesting - the original poster used the phrase 'rail car' as well as DMU so I wonder if you've hit on the answer he wanted. I hadn't considered that...

For the record my discussion of Class 104 usage is in the time frame from the early 1980s onward as far as electrification

 

[30907]

Just for information sake does the Euston to Watford junction Diesel rail car still operate today?

No, it doesn't

 

[Taunton]

It was not unknown for local branch dmus to stand in for main line services when they had run into problems. Similarly the Wickford-Southminster dmu used to be hijacked to operate a shuttle from Wickford to Shenfield in the peak if some problem arose down the Southend Victoria line which stopped trains getting through.

Do I dimly recall the Watford dmus being used for the through-the-night trains from there to Euston when the power had to be turned off for some reason?

 

[Mr Spock]

As the OP talks about pictures from Stonebridge Park I assumed that he is actually talking about the DC lines.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Further to my post 4 above, I've just found the 1982 RCTS coaching stock book, where Bletchley has the following:

BRCW Cl 104
DMBS 50532/34/36/39/40/41
DTC* 56177/79/81/82/83/84
i.e. six 2-car units.

* the book had a note showing these composites as all downgraded to second-class only.

Of the earlier Cravens allocation, only one motor and two trailers remained in stock, now at Newton Heath, while the earlier single-car unit was allocated to Tyseley by 1982.

Nice upgrade - replacing units built in 1957 with some built in 1958!

 

[DXMachina]

Nice upgrade - replacing units built in 1957 with some built in 1958!

Class 104 lasted in intensive service until the end of Blue-square DMU operation in the south in the late 1990s. They were great units. Cravens were rubbish which is why even BR wouldnt hang on to them

 

[eastwestdivide]

Well I'd hesitate to call the BRCW 104s "great", but the Cravens 105s were pretty rubbish, as you rightly say. The vibration was horrendous.
Interesting that they replaced five 2-car Cravens units with six BRCW - was that because of increased traffic or as better maintenance cover? (I read somewhere that the single-car unit back in the 1977 allocation was a temporary substitute to cover for out-of-service Cravens).
By about 84-85, those Bletchley units had the odd run north of Bedford to Wellingborough/Kettering/Market Harborough. Attached are two of my photos:
one on the 1540 Bletchley-Market Harborough at Oakley in Feb 1985
and a pair just N of Bedford the same day, unidentified service.

 

[MK Tom]

Was there any patronage on the through Bletchley-Harborough services? I've always thought a good use of the Marston Vale would be an extension of the service to run MK-Corby via Bedford, Welly and Kettering.

 

[Taunton]

Well I'd hesitate to call the BRCW 104s "great", but the Cravens 105s were pretty rubbish, as you rightly say. The vibration was horrendous.

As I understood it, all the dmu design of the frame and below (ie engine/transmission, bogies, suspension, heaters, etc) was standardised and designed by BR at Derby. Only the bodywork was designed by the separate contractors. It's true that the Cravens (and, I felt, the Met-Cam as well) units always felt Spartan in comparison to others.

 

[High Dyke]

Was there any DMU passenger workings through Stonebridge Park to/from Watford Junction? The DC liones (as it still is today) was electrified by the L & NWR as early as 1914. Originally featuring Siemens electrical equipment a second batch was introduced using Oerlikon equipment.

These units were in use until 1960 when they were replaced by the Class 501 EMU's which in turn were replqaced by Class 313 EMU's in 1985. The 313 units were replaced by Class 378 units in 2010.

 

[High Dyke]

Was there any DMU passenger workings through Stonebridge Park to/from Watford Junction? The DC lines (as it still is today) were electrified by the L & NWR as early as 1914. Originally the units used featured Siemens electrical equipment a second batch of units weres introduced using Oerlikon equipment.

These units were in use until 1960 when they were replaced by the Class 501 EMU's which in turn were replaced by Class 313 EMU's in 1985. The 313 units were replaced by Class 378 units in 2010.

 

[Madge Wildfire]

Slightly after your timeframe, but probably relevant to the last bit of it...
The RCTS 1977 coaching stock book has the following DMUs allocated to Bletchley, which would have covered the Bletchley-Bedford and Watford-St Albans branches, the latter only electrified in the late 1980s:

five 2-car Cravens class 105 (MBS+DTCL)
M50390-94 + M56145-49

plus one single car Gloucester class 122 (MBS) or "bubble car"
M55009

There's a potted history of the St Albans branch at:
http://www.abbeyline.org.uk/routehistory.htm
showing a BRCW class 104 DMU in 1983, so I don't know how long the Cravens units were allocated to Bletchley

Cravens pics at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5717167444/
(1972)
and
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6274283628/
(1971)

Yes, I saw M50394+M56147 and M50392+M56148 at Watford in Jan 1976,
M55009+M50391+M56145 0n 3rd May 1976,
M55009 on its own on 8th May.
M50392+M56148 on 4th Sep,
M56149+M50393 on 23rd Sep,
M56145+M50392 on 23rd Apr 1977
M50391+M56148 on 21st May with M55009 parked in a siding.

After that my visits became more infrequent.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Was there any DMU passenger workings through Stonebridge Park to/from Watford Junction? The DC lines (as it still is today) were electrified by the L & NWR as early as 1914. Originally the units used featured Siemens electrical equipment a second batch of units weres introduced using Oerlikon equipment.

These units were in use until 1960 when they were replaced by the Class 501 EMU's which in turn were replaced by Class 313 EMU's in 1985. The 313 units were replaced by Class 378 units in 2010.

I think the Watford services via Bushey were steam initially - extending in various stages north - there were issues with WW1 and Oerlikon stock. Certainly the Underground cobbled together some sets for electric services. I can vouch for a diesel operation as I once put a 117 on a Euston working due to a shortage of 313 sets - just for one round trip. It kept time too ! In passing - the DC has never had a proper, full history written on it. Very much a "taken for granted" railway.

 

[David Barrett]

As I understood it, all the dmu design of the frame and below (ie engine/transmission, bogies, suspension, heaters, etc) was standardised and designed by BR at Derby. Only the bodywork was designed by the separate contractors. It's true that the Cravens (and, I felt, the Met-Cam as well) units always felt Spartan in comparison to others.

Standardised in concept and basic layout but there were several different types of engine in use: A.E.C. 150 HP, Leyland/B.U.T. 150 HP, Leyland/B.U.T. 220 HP, Rolls Royce 180 HP, Rolls Royce 238 HP. Most had Wilson four speed epicyclic gearboxes but some had 2 stage torque converters and so on. The A.E.C. engined Craven built units were particularly prone to vibration although they were sound and reliable but in use they seemed to be lacking in guts and were uncomfortable; whenever one turned up I always headed for the trailer car (unless it was a power twin of course). From a maintenance viewpoint they were no more, and often less, trouble than some other types.

 

[guy_in_wales]

Well I'd hesitate to call the BRCW 104s "great", but the Cravens 105s were pretty rubbish, as you rightly say. The vibration was horrendous.
Interesting that they replaced five 2-car Cravens units with six BRCW - was that because of increased traffic or as better maintenance cover? (I read somewhere that the single-car unit back in the 1977 allocation was a temporary substitute to cover for out-of-service Cravens).
By about 84-85, those Bletchley units had the odd run north of Bedford to Wellingborough/Kettering/Market Harborough. Attached are two of my photos:
one on the 1540 Bletchley-Market Harborough at Oakley in Feb 1985
and a pair just N of Bedford the same day, unidentified service.

I remember this DMUs on the Wellingborough - Bedford, they ran an early morning service, and I believe a late night chug north with and filling in during the day. They were painfully slow compared to the 125's and didn`t last long. Used to connect intermediate stations between Bedford and Kettering (don`t think they went as far as Market Harborough or Leicester)

 

[eastwestdivide]

Well I was a bit surprised to read the caption that I wrote on the photo at the time, but I did put down the time of the service as well (1540 Bletchley-Market Harborough), so I'm reasonably sure I didn't make it up.
It's worth remembering what a sparse service the Midland line had back then compared to today's 5 trains an hour out of St Pancras, so those "infill" DMU workings did have a role to play.
All of which is a long way from the OP's Watford Junction in the 60s and 70s!