Waverley Route

[snakeeyes]

Hi, when was the last time it was possible to travel on the Waverly route before the track was lifted completely?

 

[Altfish]

Hi, when was the last time it was possible to travel on the Waverly route before the track was lifted completely?

January 1969 were the last passenger specials. Track lifting continued until 1972.

Wiki has the facts...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waverley_Route#Last_trains_and_aftermath

 

[snakeeyes]

thank you.

 

[Jimbob_Notts]

Beautiful line, sorely missed.

Hopefully wont be too long before it's fully reinstated.
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If they were to reopen this line, and perhaps that along the Tweed Valley + Peebles circular.. It'd just about make up for the sadness I feel re: the GCR

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hopefully wont be too long before it's fully reinstated.

Well, that aspiration should see a hundred or so postings on this thread...

 

[Jimbob_Notts]

Well, that aspiration should see a hundred or so postings on this thread...

I'd run up to the Borders to catch a Waverley Route train!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I would have absolutely loved to have travelled over that line; judging by photos the scenery is pretty much the equal of that on the S&C. But I don't think there's any realistic chance of it re-opening: no population centres of any size along the way and much slower than the ex-CR route. Far more useful missing links for the Scottish Government to spend its money on.

 

[Scouseinmanc]

I do think it will be a Scotrail aspiration to extend south to Hawick, but I couldn't see it going any further than that.

As to when that happens though, is another question...

 

[sprinterguy]

I do think it will be a Scotrail aspiration to extend south to Hawick, but I couldn't see it going any further than that.

There's a flippin' big bridge that would need building across the middle of Hawick in order to get it any further south than that, so Hawick certainly seems like the natural limit of a future extension.

I'm in agreement with Shaw S Hunter in questioning what purpose a reopening of the full line would serve? Aesthetic appeal and sentiment do not a business case make.

 

[Scouseinmanc]

There's a flippin' big bridge that would need building across the middle of Hawick in order to get it any further south than that, so Hawick certainly seems like the natural limit of a future extension.

Which is my biggest bugbear about the wholesale closures of the 60's. Not just a case of closing the lines, but the demolition of structures that swiftly followed, so as to ensure the lines could not be reopened at a later date.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not just a case of closing the lines, but the demolition of structures that swiftly followed, so as to ensure the lines could not be reopened at a later date.

More practically, a means to reduce the cost of maintaining the BR estate on disused routes: I'd wager that there were many structures on disused lines around the country that were still the responsibility of the BRB (Residuary) at it's disbandment in 2013.

 

[47271]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59833

This thread more than amply covers the discussion of a full reopening of the Waverley route if anyone wants to read all 196 pages of it. Suffice to say the subject has been done to death many times over.

 

[exile]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59833

This thread more than amply covers the discussion of a full reopening of the Waverley route if anyone wants to read all 196 pages of it. Suffice to say the subject has been done to death many times over.

Had a quick browse and there are a lot of things discussed there such as punctuality on the new Borders line, overcrowding etc. Not sure it's a reason to kill discussion of the specific issue of extensions to Hawick or Carlisle.
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I would have absolutely loved to have travelled over that line; judging by photos the scenery is pretty much the equal of that on the S&C. But I don't think there's any realistic chance of it re-opening: no population centres of any size along the way and much slower than the ex-CR route. Far more useful missing links for the Scottish Government to spend its money on.

The only possible case would be to provide extra capacity and resilience for Anglo Scottish traffic. And then it would probably involve a long tunnel to avoid the gradients and curves of the old route!

 

[snakeeyes]

More practically, a means to reduce the cost of maintaining the BR estate on disused routes: I'd wager that there were many structures on disused lines around the country that were still the responsibility of the BRB (Residuary) at it's disbandment in 2013.

I remember reading that the bridge in Hawick was demolished by the local council as kids were throwing ballast from it, you would think the council should of protected the structures and route to make reopening a possibility.

 

[sprinterguy]

I remember reading that the bridge in Hawick was demolished by the local council as kids were throwing ballast from it, you would think the council should of protected the structures and route to make reopening a possibility.

That was actually the Lynnwood viaduct across Slitrig Water and the B6399, just south west of Hawick and demolished for the reason you state in 1982.

At the time that the Waverley route was closed and for more than a decade afterwards as far as I can tell, rail was commonly seen as an industry in decline, so preserving structures for potential future reopening is unlikely to have been high on any council's agenda.

 

[GrimShady]

Oban to Callander & Stirling would be a lovely line to reopen and very popular during the summer!

 

[james60059]

I remember reading that the bridge in Hawick was demolished by the local council as kids were throwing ballast from it, you would think the council should of protected the structures and route to make reopening a possibility.

I think that was one of the reasons why Brackley Viaduct on the former Great Central Mainline in Northamptonshire got demolished.

From what I read demolishing it wasn't to easy feat either......

 

[Taunton]

Not only was there little through demand from Carlisle to Edinburgh, but shortly after the line closed the WCML electrification was authorised and the line from Carlisle to Motherwell was closed every day from about 1971-74 in the daytime for works. In those days it was busier at night with freight, mail, sleepers etc than in the day. Glasgow day trains were diverted via the GSW line, but all day connection from Carlisle, and the WCML, to Edinburgh, were completely lost.

Presumably if the Waverley had lasted a couple more years it would have been kept open while this was in progress. But I understood (living in Edinburgh and Glasgow at that time) that actual traffic on the southern end of the Waverley had been notably thin, a few trains a day of a Class 45 and some sparsely-filled carriages. Compared to Salisbury-Exeter, still quite a bit of traffic but singled, it had hours without any service but remained double track and local signalboxes throughout, little attempt was made to minimise costs.

Come 1974 and Carlisle-Edinburgh services returned, via Carstairs, with through trains from Manchester/Liverpool/Birmingham, and these would have scooped much of what little traffic was on the southern Waverley.

 

[Millisle]

With reference to the OP, I did read, though I regret I cannot remember where, an enthusiast describing paying the first class fare required for a brake van trip between Edinburgh and Hawick shortly before closure to freight between those points in April 1969.
With regard to demolitions, those who lived through the period of major closures will be aware that at that time the public authorities and indeed most of the public considered reopenings of railways romantic fantasy.

 

[RT4038]

And as far as the Carlisle-Hawick line is concerned, still should!