Whistler40145
Established Member
Who are the bidders involved in the West Coast Mainline InterCity Franchise?
Which would be the best option?
Which would be the best option?
Considering that when the franchise was up the previous time and First Group won and then the Government made a complete mess of it and ended up with Virgin still operating the service on a contract, we don't wish to have the same problem twice.
I don't really like any of the options, as I don't want a Romance style HSR operator involved. I would like to have seen a bid involving a UK operation and DB AG, though NOT via Arriva, via DB Fernverkehr directly.
(HSR in China is "Romance style" - non-clockface timetabling and compulsory reservations/airline style pricing)
I'm thinking that the First/Trenitalia joint bid is favourable.Hmm, not sure DB fern is the best operator tbh!
OeBB is a much more competent operator, and technically high speed between Linz and Vienna!
My preference is First/Trenitalia, First have a good track record with FGW (not so much GWR)
Hmm, not sure DB fern is the best operator tbh!
OeBB is a much more competent operator, and technically high speed between Linz and Vienna!
My preference is First/Trenitalia, First have a good track record with FGW (not so much GWR)
Agreed, though Chinese HSR is fixed pricing based on distance, with very cheap fares but no advance discounts.I don't really like any of the options, as I don't want a Romance style HSR operator involved. I would like to have seen a bid involving a UK operation and DB AG, though NOT via Arriva, via DB Fernverkehr directly.
(HSR in China is "Romance style" - non-clockface timetabling and compulsory reservations/airline style pricing)
Oh I don't know. That sounds a perfect result in my opinion.Considering that when the franchise was up the previous time and First Group won and then the Government made a complete mess of it and ended up with Virgin still operating the service on a contract, we don't wish to have the same problem twice.
Obviously in the short term, the winning bidder inherits the Pendolino and Voyager fleets.
Will we see any changes to services?
That's going to be very interesting, especially if whoever wins dumps the Pendolino fleet in the future.Probably not much in the way of changes to start with, but I reckon we'll then see gradual change as HS2 becomes ever closer.
As for the fleets - it will be interesting to see what happens with them. I believe Alstom is currently working hard to reduce the costs of the expensive Pendolino fleet as some of the bidders had considered them too expensive, and it was rumoured that some were looking as possibly dumping them - such is the climate of cheaper newer rolling stock these days!
Would any bid including Arriva, even if it was a part of a consortium?
Northern Rail is part of the Arriva group and run out of Blackpool North to Preston
If the WCML franchise was under another Arriva operator, they would have a complete monopoly on InterCity and local services, then there's the new open access services starting in September, part of the Grand Central company, which I believe is owned by Arriva, this would lead to different TOCs on that section, but in a round about way owned by one big organisation
You won't see GNWR to Blackpool this side of 2020.then there's the new open access services starting in September, part of the Grand Central company, which I believe is owned by Arriva, this would lead to different TOCs on that section, but in a round about way owned by one big organisation
The challenges for this franchise will be of a different order to our current domestic TOCs, and the winner will be fighting with DfT and HS2 Ltd from Day 1.
Even what GTR has done for the last few years?
I do see what you mean but GTR did lots of service planning and ripped up several sets of plans (inc. pre taking over), I suspect you don't realise how much GTR did and is still doing. GTR has /is adding more new rolling stock than all the existing VT stock and DOUBLE all the HS2 captive stock. Driver recruitment and training off the scale compared to what the West Coast operator will have to do.I meant really in terms of the political context, and service planning, rather than "running trains".
If you see what I mean!
It will be where Network Rail collides with HS2 Ltd.
Bearing in mind most are mid-life already it's not as bad as it sounds. Going to be a few more years yet & nothing will change before 2026 at the earliest due to the nature of operation on the WCML.That's going to be very interesting, especially if whoever wins dumps the Pendolino fleet in the future.
That's going to be very interesting, especially if whoever wins dumps the Pendolino fleet in the future.
Don't think the DafT cares, as long as they can offload their liabilities...Bemused how operatives from the other side of the world can confidently take on the defined benefit pension liabilities....
The best option?Stagecoach/Virgin/SNCF, in my opinion the best option.
When HS2 is open and all principal inter city trains are operated by the new (non tilting) high speed stock, there will be absolutely no justification for (expensive) tilting trains on the WCML. Expect to see speed limits harmonised in order to increase line capacity.Forgive my ignorance, but who else has recent experience of manufacturering tilt enabled stock?
Won't a relatively small order of tilting stock to British loading gauge be prohibitively expensive, especially if competition is likely to be limited?