WCML South - rough riding?

[londonmidland]

On a number of occasions, whilst on a 350, there seems to be a particularly bad stretch of track which lurches you all over the place, between Milton Keynes Central and Rugby, on the Down Fast. I believe it is around the Weedon area, as you go through the tunnel(s)

Has anyone else experienced this and do you feel it whilst on other rolling stock, such as the Pendolino in this area?

 

[SargeNpton]

Down slow at Hanslope Junction is another regular point for rough riding. Some areas need more maintenance than others.

350s do seem to be the first stock on which it's noticeable when WCML tracks start to deteriorate.

 

[Boodiggy]

On a number of occasions, whilst on a 350, there seems to be a particularly bad stretch of track which lurches you all over the place, between Milton Keynes Central and Rugby, on the Down Fast. I believe it is around the Weedon area, as you go through the tunnel(s)

Has anyone else experienced this and do you feel it whilst on other rolling stock, such as the Pendolino in this area?

UM and DM between MK and Rugby both have plenty of dips and bumps. 350s ride quality is poor.

 

[SargeNpton]

UM and DM between MK and Rugby both have plenty of dips and bumps. 350s ride quality is poor.

UF and DF please. UM and DM are Great Western terms!

 

[HOOVER29]

UM and DM between MK and Rugby both have plenty of dips and bumps. 350s ride quality is poor.

When I used to use the Trent valley from Tamworth the class 350’s had a tendency to hunt if that’s the word, where you can feel the wheels
moving side to side on the rails.
Used to be particularly bad north of Stafford

Do they still do this?

 

[londonmidland]

When I used to use the Trent valley from Tamworth the class 350’s had a tendency to hunt if that’s the word, where you can feel the wheels
moving side to side on the rails.
Used to be particularly bad north of Stafford

Do they still do this?

Didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary over this section. 222s are really prome to this over the southern half of the MML.

 

[Boodiggy]

UF and DF please. UM and DM are Great Western terms!

Between Hanslope and Hillmorton it is UM and DM!

 

[Bald Rick]

On a number of occasions, whilst on a 350, there seems to be a particularly bad stretch of track which lurches you all over the place, between Milton Keynes Central and Rugby, on the Down Fast. I believe it is around the Weedon area, as you go through the tunnel(s)

Has anyone else experienced this and do you feel it whilst on other rolling stock, such as the Pendolino in this area?

At Weedon there are double reverse curves, just north of Stow Hill tunnel, right at the limit of curvature standards, it might be that.

I must say I don‘t notice it on my frequent trips by Pendolini.

UF and DF please. UM and DM are Great Western terms!

Between Hanslope and Hilmorton it is UM / DM

(See attached Sectional Appendix)

 

[prod_pep]

This is very noticeable on 350s and on other sections of the WCML too, but I've never encountered anything like it on 390s. Put simply, the 350s offer a relatively poor ride quality.

 

[ComUtoR]

UM and DM between MK and Rugby both have plenty of dips and bumps. 350s ride quality is poor.

This is very noticeable on 350s and on other sections of the WCML too, but I've never encountered anything like it on 390s. Put simply, the 350s offer a relatively poor ride quality.

Is this 'ride quality' or one unit dealing with track defects better than the other ?

 

[prod_pep]

Is this 'ride quality' or one unit dealing with track defects better than the other ?

Ride quality is definitely part of it. The 390s objectively ride better than the 350s in my experience, and by a fair margin.

 

[507021]

Based on my experience of travelling on the WCML on both types, the difference in ride quality between them was sizeable. That said, I've never been particularly impressed with the Class 350's ride quality.

 

[Halish Railway]

Is it really a case of one type offering a better ride than another or offering different forms of ride quality?

From my experience the 350's suspension is a bit too soft and therefore a bit lurchy, whereas the 390s are a bit stiffer and sometimes shaky.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Is it really a case of one type offering a better ride than another or offering different forms of ride quality?

From my experience the 350's suspension is a bit too soft and therefore a bit lurchy, whereas the 350s are a bit stiffer and sometimes shaky.

You've mentioned the 350s twice!

 

[Halish Railway]

You've mentioned the 350s twice!

Thanks for identifying this mistake - I’ve corrected it to say 390s.

 

[tcm1106]

The location you’re referring to is on the Down, just to the north of Stowe Tunnel. There’s a lack of transition curve as you enter into the reverse curves, which causes a bit of a lurch.

Those of us who used to regularly commute northwards from Milton Keynes on the hourly 350 and were standing, used to instinctively reach for a grab rail when exiting Stowe Tunnel north portal otherwise you’d easily fall over. Those less familiar with the route always looked perplexed when several people all grabbed hold of the nearest rail at the same time!

 

[Boodiggy]

The location you’re referring to is on the Down, just to the north of Stowe Tunnel. There’s a lack of transition curve as you enter into the reverse curves, which causes a bit of a lurch.

Those of us who used to regularly commute northwards from Milton Keynes on the hourly 350 and were standing, used to instinctively reach for a grab rail when exiting Stowe Tunnel north portal otherwise you’d easily fall over. Those less familiar with the route always looked perplexed when several people all grabbed hold of the nearest rail at the same time!

There is not a lack of transition. It would be noticeable on all trains if that was the case.

 

[AJDesiro]

There is not a lack of transition. It would be noticeable on all trains if that was the case.

Surely that isn't necessarily the case, when the other rolling stock (99% of the time) tilts, which will improve the ride.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely that isn't necessarily the case, when the other rolling stock (99% of the time) tilts, which will improve the ride.

Not at 120mph into a tight curve if there’s no transition!!

 

[AJDesiro]

Not at 120mph into a tight curve if there’s no transition!!

Fair enough, I'm not exactly clued up in the subject.

 

[tcm1106]

There is not a lack of transition. It would be noticeable on all trains if that was the case.

It is noticeable on other non-tilting stock…

 

[Boodiggy]

The rate of change will be different for non-tilting stock but it is just a tight curve. I have never noticed an issue with the transition in particular here.
All transitions will have to be of a certain length and factor in curve radius and linespeed. It is not possible to have a lack of transition - it has to be there.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Thanks for identifying this mistake - I’ve corrected it to say 390s.

No worries.

 

[MK Tom]

Interestingly my wife's motion sickness, which normally doesn't occur on trains when facing forwards, was badly triggered around the Blisworth/Weedon area when we went to Liverpool last month. No issues after Rugby.

 

[Bald Rick]

Interestingly my wife's motion sickness, which normally doesn't occur on trains when facing forwards, was badly triggered around the Blisworth/Weedon area when we went to Liverpool last month. No issues after Rugby.

That is the tiltiest bit. Full over one way, then the other, then back again in quick succession at maximum tilt and rate of change of tilt. All in less than a minute. And lots of close visual references (over bridges, retaining walls, canals, etc) that appear in the ‘wrong’ place if you are looking out of the window every few seconds.

I have had the rare experience of going round Weedon at full speed when the tilt failed halfway through, quite an experience. But totally sage, if you could dodge the coffee cups.

 

[AndrewE]

That is the tiltiest bit. Full over one way, then the other, then back again in quick succession at maximum tilt and rate of change of tilt. All in less than a minute. And lots of close visual references (over bridges, retaining walls, canals, etc) that appear in the ‘wrong’ place if you are looking out of the window every few seconds.

Interestingly an ex-colleague used to prefer Voyagers because the windows were so much bigger than Pendolinos... and I suspect most of her travel on them was on non-tilting routes. I love Pendos, (apart from coach H) but I have to admit that the small letter-box view from them doesn't give the best view from a train.