WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[paul1609]

As has been previously mentioned, other TOCs have successfully fitted CDL to Mk1 stock and also significantly improved the crashworthiness of that stock so I don't see why Mk1s should be retired as you suggest.

As has also been previously mentioned those have tended to be DMUs which have a completely different electrical supply or coaches that were supplied or modified in BR days as either ETH or DualHeat. The crashworthyness is inherent to the original design of the coaches it can be mitigated to an extent by stuff like overide protection but they will still lack the crashworthyness of MK2 with their hybrid construction or MK3 with monocoque construction. Im afraid I dont think that you can make a financial case for the majority of the remaining VAC/ Steam heat mk1 stock to be CDL fitted.

 

[43096]

Not trying to go OT, but wouldn't that be viewed as problematic given if coaches derailed and (partly?) tipped over, evacuation from such a kitchen car might be even more difficult?

Not if you fit emergency door releases.

 

[Falcon1200]

Not trying to go OT, but wouldn't that be viewed as problematic given if coaches derailed and (partly?) tipped over, evacuation from such a kitchen car might be even more difficult?

In an accident as serious as that opening coach doors above one would be very difficult! I would suggest smashed windows would be used instead, and passengers would need assistance to climb out of coaches whether through a (narrower) door or window.

 

[Ayrshire Roy]

I wonder if there is reason they can't use vacuum actuators for the door locks.
It would solve the lack of electricity problem straight away.

 

[43096]

I wonder if there is reason they can't use vacuum actuators for the door locks.
It would solve the lack of electricity problem straight away.

You’ll need an electrical feed regardless, as control would be electrical, even before you get to things like the door indicator lights.

 

[Egg Centric]

Not if you fit emergency door releases.

Maybe you could even put all the doors out of action (except for said emergency release) on half the passenger coaches. Strictly speaking do they have to have non emergency doors? This could be a lot cheaper than fitting them all with CDL.

And if that is acceptable... don't forget to put the emergency release on the outside too and make it easy to reset

 

[Wyrleybart]

Maybe you could even put all the doors out of action (except for said emergency release) on half the passenger coaches. Strictly speaking do they have to have non emergency doors? This could be a lot cheaper than fitting them all with CDL.

And if that is acceptable... don't forget to put the emergency release on the outside too and make it easy to reset

I guess this is basically what was done to the class 117 and 121 DMUs. Half the doors were welded up and the remaining ones fitted with magnetic CDL

If you look at "Flora" in this video there appears to be just one "public" door on this side and the guard's door where it always used to be.

 

[12LDA28C]

I guess this is basically what was done to the class 117 and 121 DMUs. Half the doors were welded up and the remaining ones fitted with magnetic CDL

If you look at "Flora" in this video there appears to be just one "public" door on this side and the guard's door where it always used to be.

As I mentioned upthread, the CDL system on 'FLORA' is a bolt, not an electromagnet arrangement as fitted to the other two ex-Chiltern bubble cars.

 

[Wyrleybart]

As I mentioned upthread, the CDL system on 'FLORA' is a bolt, not an electromagnet arrangement as fitted to the other two ex-Chiltern bubble cars.

Apologies for that "12LDA28C"

 

[357]

I don't know if these coaches are only fit for scrap, if they are unused, or if they are raising funds for work on the Mk1s but I've seen this in an industry magazine:

Mk 2 E&F Air-Con Coaches FOR SALE

WEST COAST RAILWAYS

6151MK2F - TSO

5929MK2F - TSO

6073-MK2F - TSO

5815MK2E - TSO

5958MK2F - TSO

6009 MK2F - TSO

6134-MK2F - TSO

6154MK2F - TSO

6029MK2F - TSO

5888 MK2E - TSO

6045MK2F-TSO

5978MK2F - TSO

1252 MK2F - FO

1253-MK2F - FO

All are Based at Southall Depot and are open to Bids (lots preferred)

Closing Date will be April 19th 2024 Buyer/s will Collect from Southall

These Carriages will be sold as seen and where lying without any warranty, condition or undertaking including (without limitation) as to quality, position in any programme or cycle of maintenance, or fitness for a particular purpose.

Please contact XXXX or XXX at West Coast Railways to organise Viewings on XXXX XXXXXX (those who intend to make a serious enquiry will know where to find this info)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I went past Southall yesterday en route to and from Reading.

Those carriages are, at least visibly, in an absolute state - they're visibly coated with mosses and lichen for a start...

What can't be seen from passing trains is, of course, their mechanical state but we can take a guess based on how long they've evidently been lying around to get into such a visual state just what sort of physical condition the bogies and bodyshells might be in.

 

[43096]

I went past Southall yesterday en route to and from Reading.

Those carriages are, at least visibly, in an absolute state - they're visibly coated with mosses and lichen for a start...

What can't be seen from passing trains is, of course, their mechanical state but we can take a guess based on how long they've evidently been lying around to get into such a visual state just what sort of physical condition the bogies and bodyshells might be in.

Somewhat ironically, they are fitted with CDL, though.

 

[JKF]

Maybe someone can buy them all and stick them in a field in North Yorkshire to rot for a decade before scrapping them?

 

[fgwrich]

I went past Southall yesterday en route to and from Reading.

Those carriages are, at least visibly, in an absolute state - they're visibly coated with mosses and lichen for a start...

What can't be seen from passing trains is, of course, their mechanical state but we can take a guess based on how long they've evidently been lying around to get into such a visual state just what sort of physical condition the bogies and bodyshells might be in.

They may be, but I can guarantee they are at least a little more weathertight than some of LSL’s recent Mk2 purchases…

(At least 3 of those are destined for the bin)

 

[northernbelle]

There must be some level of confidence that something will run this year - WCRC 37676 moved to Fort William this week.

 

[D365]

Is that not just a standby loco that WCRC provides anyway?

 

[John Bishop]

There must be some level of confidence that something will run this year - WCRC 37676 moved to Fort William this week.

That’s a NR standby loco for route proving purposes. Normal occurrence throughout the winter period.

 

[Sentinel]

West Coast Mk2s and Riley’s Black 5 44871 (air brakes of course) on the RTC Stratford Flyer from Manchester to Stratford this Saturday.

 

[Towers]

I went past Southall yesterday en route to and from Reading.

Those carriages are, at least visibly, in an absolute state - they're visibly coated with mosses and lichen for a start...

What can't be seen from passing trains is, of course, their mechanical state but we can take a guess based on how long they've evidently been lying around to get into such a visual state just what sort of physical condition the bogies and bodyshells might be in.

Didn’t they also catch fire at some point in recent history? I’ve often wondered if they’re there to form some sort of supposed security barrier between the outside world and the working heritage stuff in the shed.

WCRC looking to raise money from scrap to help fund the inevitable CDL fitment perhaps? Doesn’t appear to have been any inclination to sell this lot for the past few decades!

 

[800001]

Didn’t they also catch fire at some point in recent history?

Arson!

 

[Towers]

Arson!

When is it ever not!

 

[Iskra]

I note that the usual summer Dalesman/Scarborough Spa services are now advertised on the WCRC website. With what stock will these run and how will WCRC ensure the rolling stock is compliant, does anyone know?

 

[12LDA28C]

I note that the usual summer Dalesman/Scarborough Spa services are now advertised on the WCRC website. With what stock will these run and how will WCRC ensure the rolling stock is compliant, does anyone know?

They have a compliant rake of Mk2s, or they could hire in from elsewhere, eg Riviera, dependent on the steam loco being dual braked.

 

[renegademaster]

I think its their own set they are mostly using atm. They have quite a few air brakes locos to pick from including the black 5s of jacobite fame so that's not a problem

 

[anothertyke]

But once the three black 5s are at Fort Bill they do have a problem assuming they need air braked locos. According to Trackside magazine they are in conversations with ORR. Maybe they will have demonstrated enough progress with the Jacobite and Northern Belle sets to be granted an exemption similar to Vintage to see them through summer '24.

 

[Iskra]

But once the three black 5s are at Fort Bill they do have a problem assuming they need air braked locos. According to Trackside magazine they are in conversations with ORR. Maybe they will have demonstrated enough progress with the Jacobite and Northern Belle sets to be granted an exemption similar to Vintage to see them through summer '24.

This was my thinking too. Presumably, there's a reasonable chance of non-Jacobite operations being curtailed at the expense of keeping that lucrative service running, if it comes to it?

 

[anothertyke]

This was my thinking too. Presumably, there's a reasonable chance of non-Jacobite operations being curtailed at the expense of keeping that lucrative service running, if it comes to it?

Possibly but ORR need to be even handed. They have been willing to grant exemptions to Vintage and SRPS on the basis of a plan for CDL fitment and progress towards delivery on the plan. Fairly soon, at least by the time of the GB tour, things should be clearer.

 

[renegademaster]

As mentioned before Rivera are currently making a Mark 2 set with Mark 1 style windows in the coaches. Maybe that is long term plan for the Jacobite

 

[12LDA28C]

As mentioned before Rivera are currently making a Mark 2 set with Mark 1 style windows in the coaches. Maybe that is long term plan for the Jacobite

That's more likely a plan to mitigate the effects of air con failure which seems to happen fairly frequently on the Riviera air-con rakes. It would cost WCRC a fair bit hiring in a rake of stock for months on end.

 

[1Q18]

But once the three black 5s are at Fort Bill they do have a problem assuming they need air braked locos.

Presumably ‘Tangmere’ will be fairly busy..