WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Mountain Man]

And lots of other companies have found it uneconomical and troublesome to fit.

Really though, we should only ever allow the absolute upmost of saftey and only allow railtours to use Azumas and Electrostars

Plenty of railtours operate fine without the need for exemptions.

 

[Bikeman78]

Give your head a wobble... WCRC have had years of notice to fit CDL. It is unsafe and not fit for mainline operation. We are becoming an increasingly litigious society (taking after the US) and this, among other reasons, drives these decisions from the ORR/wider railway. The fact that WCRC have F***ed around and found out is their fault and their fault alone. Someone call Hosking...

I think unsafe is stretching the point a bit. Walking or cycling are less safe than riding on any train. Yet we all take the risk.

 

[zwk500]

And lots of other companies have found it uneconomical and troublesome to fit.

Really though, we should only ever allow the absolute upmost of saftey and only allow railtours to use Azumas and Electrostars

Which companies have had a problem fitting it?

I think unsafe is stretching the point a bit. Walking or cycling are less safe than riding on any train. Yet we all take the risk.

Unsafe may be overstating it but certainly has too great a risk attached to it - the droplight in particular being a problem as well as doors opening outwards.
Multiple incidents of heads striking hard things outside the train and doors swinging foul of the adjacent line show its not a hypothetical risk either.

 

[renegademaster]

Which companies have had a problem fitting it?

SPRS

the droplight in particular being a problem as well as doors opening outwards.
Multiple incidents of heads striking hard things outside the train and doors swinging foul of the adjacent line show its not a hypothetical risk either.

Droplights are ok according to the ORR

Plenty of railtours operate fine without the need for exemptions.

Largely ones where the route or destination is the main selling point, which use newer stock. WCRC main attraction is the older stock

 

[craigybagel]

And lots of other companies have found it uneconomical and troublesome to fit.

Lots? SRPS appears to be the only other one that's had issues - and aren't their railtours something of a small side hustle compared to their main business?

Really though, we should only ever allow the absolute upmost of saftey and only allow railtours to use Azumas and Electrostars

Given their previous issues with regards to following the rules, I'm not sure I'd feel entirely safe on an Azuma or Electrostar if it was WCRC operating it.

 

[renegademaster]

Lots? SRPS appears to be the only other one that's had issues - and aren't their railtours something of a small side hustle compared to their main business?

Given their previous issues with regards to following the rules, I'm not sure I'd feel entirely safe on an Azuma or Electrostar if it was WCRC operating it.

ORR does seem a bit harsher when it catches WCRC for issues. Imagine if normal TOCs got their licence taken away every time their is a wrong side error or a SPAD

 

[D6130]

SRPS appears to be the only other one that's had issues - and aren't their railtours something of a small side hustle compared to their main business?

Their railtours contribute quite a lot of revenue to subsidise their main business. Without that revenue they are in a shed-load of trouble.

 

[John Bishop]

ORR does seem a bit harsher when it catches WCRC for issues. Imagine if normal TOCs got their licence taken away every time their is a wrong side error or a SPAD

But the difference is, mainline TOCs don’t go around isolating safety systems without following the appropriate rules afterwards. See Wooton Basset.

 

[Mountain Man]

WCRC main attraction is the older stock

Are you being serious?

Their best seller, the Jacobite, lives off imagery and scene of a viaduct from a Harry Potter film.

The one thing it ISNT about is the stock

 

[philthetube]

Are you being serious?

Their best seller, the Jacobite, lives off imagery and scene of a viaduct from a Harry Potter film.

The one thing it ISNT about is the stock

It's half about the stock, as long as the train looks similar to the harry potter one it is fine.

 

[craigybagel]

ORR does seem a bit harsher when it catches WCRC for issues. Imagine if normal TOCs got their licence taken away every time their is a wrong side error or a SPAD

But the difference is, mainline TOCs don’t go around isolating safety systems without following the appropriate rules afterwards. See Wooton Basset.

Exactly. WCRC didn't get in trouble for a SPAD - they got in trouble for a safety culture that seemingly permitted staff to wilfully break the rules. Wooton Bassett was horrific - you should read the report if you haven't already - and ORR found plenty of signs it wasn't a one off incident caused by a rogue driver.

Their railtours contribute quite a lot of revenue to subsidise their main business. Without that revenue they are in a shed-load of trouble.

True, but my point is it isn't their main business. Those companies that do specialise in running charter trains as their main business have successfully made their trains compliant.
And also, SRPS is one - and one doesn't normally count as "lots".

 

[renegademaster]

Are you being serious?

Their best seller, the Jacobite, lives off imagery and scene of a viaduct from a Harry Potter film.

The one thing it ISNT about is the stock

Jacobite is only a small part of.their business. RTC promoted stuff is definitely about older stock

But the difference is, mainline TOCs don’t go around isolating safety systems without following the appropriate rules afterwards. See Wooton Basses

See Southall

 

[43096]

See Southall

Which lead to a major change in safety culture.

You’re rather destroying your own argument by quoting Southall.

 

[craigybagel]

See Southall

No comparison. At the time of Southall, it was perfectly permissable to run at linespeed with AWS isolated when it wasn't working.

It's a very different situation from deliberately isolating the system to cover up a brake intervention.

 

[Mountain Man]

Jacobite is only a small part of.their business. RTC promoted stuff is definitely about older stock


See Southall

Jacobite is by far the most well known part of their business.

As reinforced by all the recent news coverage, emphasising it.

 

[12LDA28C]

Droplights are ok according to the ORR

Droplights are fine, yes. Leaning out of them is not, which is why bars have been fitted on most heritage stock to prevent tour participants leaning out.

 

[renegademaster]

Droplights are fine, yes. Leaning out of them is not, which is why bars have been fitted on most heritage stock to prevent tour participants leaning out.

Wasnt that mostly done in BR days?
Most of the mark 2 and 3 ex inter city stock doesnt have any, and pre covid EMR where still running them

 

[12LDA28C]

Wasnt that mostly done in BR days?
Most of the mark 2 and 3 ex inter city stock doesnt have any, and pre covid EMR where still running them

Only a very few charter rakes had window bars back in BR days, often used on lines with restricted clearances such as the Cumbrian Coast route. More stringent modern safety standards have seen stock recently fitted with droplight window bars, such as LSL's DBSO rake of Mk3s and the 'Statesman' rake of Mk2s.

 

[renegademaster]

Only a very few charter rakes had window bars back in BR days, often used on lines with restricted clearances such as the Cumbrian Coast route. More stringent modern safety standards have seen stock recently fitted with droplight window bars, such as LSL's DBSO rake of Mk3s and the 'Statesman' rake of Mk2s.

None of the Riveria sets, or the WCRC mark 2 seems to have them, is them some exemption with expectation to get them done?
The HDL thumper doesn't have them either, and I rode it down the very tight north London line not long ago.

 

[D365]

I’d agree that WCRC have been daft if they have spent more on legal fees than they would have done in fitting CDL.

WCRC took court action and lost and then the ORR pretty much immediately thereafter revoked their exemption two months early. Maybe I’m getting cynical in my old age, but that looks very much like a retaliation by the ORR to me.

In fairness I also have misgivings about WCRC more generally. Although if the ORR’s real issue is WCRC they should come out and take regulatory action properly, rather than this snide attempt to put WCRC out of business by the back door.

WCRC (well, certain key stakeholders) are managing just fine on their own at maintaining a poor reputation within the railway industry. There’s no ”snide attempt” to put them out of business.

After the manner in which some of my industry colleagues have been treated by said stakeholders, I have zero sympathy for the company. Which is a shame as they have intelligent and hardworking people on their books.

 

[paul1609]

Plenty of railtours operate fine without the need for exemptions.

Not daily services for most of the year I think. The residual railtour business can operate with small fleets some of which were purchased from the mainline with CDL already fitted.

 

[Mountain Man]

Not daily services for most of the year I think. The residual railtour business can operate with small fleets some of which were purchased from the mainline with CDL already fitted.

They only need a small fleet in this instance. Whilst they run a regular service, it doesn't need that many carriages. And they have had long enough notice to convert and prepare a large mainline TOC, never mind a small operation of their size

 

[12LDA28C]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but there is an online petition available to sign here: https://www.change.org/p/get-the-jacobite-steam-train-back-on-tracks?source_location=search

As of midday today 1,064 signatures have been gained, with plenty of supportive comments from people who are clearly unaware of the full situation. I presume the petition was started by Messrs Smith and Shuttleworth - perhaps that's their brilliant new scheme to prompt another derogation from the ORR?

 

[paul1609]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but there is an online petition available to sign here: https://www.change.org/p/get-the-jacobite-steam-train-back-on-tracks?source_location=search

As of midday today 1,064 signatures have been gained, with plenty of supportive comments from people who are clearly unaware of the full situation. I presume the petition was started by Messrs Smith and Shuttleworth - perhaps that's their brilliant new scheme to prompt another derogation from the ORR?

Hasnt it been started by the propreitor of Haggard Alley, a Harry Potteresque establishment in Mallaigretailling fake wands etc.?

 

[Gaz67]

Hasnt it been started by the propreitor of Haggard Alley, a Harry Potteresque establishment in Mallaigretailling fake wands etc.?

Probably started by someone who has been searching for all the cases in the last 30 years of people falling out of trains on the WHL, and thought hang on. Before you say it I know the full story , I'm just explaining the average person's take on this. Wait till they start coming for the preserved railways and after that the likes of Ravenglass and Dungeness. How does the saying end, and then they came for me.

 

[12LDA28C]

Hasnt it been started by the propreitor of Haggard Alley, a Harry Potteresque establishment in Mallaigretailling fake wands etc.?

Yes, a little research proves this to be the case and apparently Mrs Wilson started out selling her Harry Potter replica tat on the Jacobite train itself. No wonder she's annoyed, a delayed start to the Jacobite (if it runs at all) will clearly affect her business. May she should direct her ire at WCRC instead of the ORR though...

 

[Dai Corner]

Hasnt it been started by the propreitor of Haggard Alley, a Harry Potteresque establishment in Mallaigretailling fake wands etc.?

It would appear so, yes. If their business is solely dependent on selling Harry Potter merchandise on the train and in the shop I can see why they're worried

New Harry Potter shop aims to offer immersive experience for fans

MUGGLES and wizards be prepared – a new Harry Potter shop is opening up its doors in Mallaig. Maria and Scott Wilson from Fort William will launch Hagrd Alley next month with the aim of offer…

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

THAT'S WIZARD

New Harry Potter shop Hagrd Alley in Mallaig aims to offer immersive experience for muggles and wizards​

to offer immersive experience for muggles and wizards alike​

Maria and Scott Wilson from Fort William will open up the doors of Hagrd Alley next month

• By Rachel Macpherson
• Published: 16:10, 25 Feb 2018
• Updated: 16:10, 25 Feb 2018

 

[philthetube]

Hasnt it been started by the proprietor of Haggard Alley, a Harry Potteresque establishment in Mallaig retailing fake wands etc.?

As against real ones

 

[paul1609]

As against real ones

Obviously you cant sell Muggles real wands otherwise they could use the Alohomara Spell to unlock the train doors.
This would be in breach of the Ministry of Magics derogation from the ORR to provide CDL on the Hogwarts Express wherby the witch on the chocolate frog trolley uses the Colloportus Spell to lock the train doors.

 

[RPI]

I did some stewarding for a railtour company a few years back, who used WCRC and I can say first hand that they are (were then at least) a total cowboy outfit with an ingrained culture of cutting corners, it is an absolute miracle that they haven't killed a trainload of people. Guards who sign routes but know literally nothing about it and that's just the tip of the Iceberg, this whole situation is totally of their own doing yet they're playing the victim, they really are gold medalists at the Victim Olympics.