WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Greybeard33]

A poster on WNXX is saying that WCRC have hired in a 37/4 to provide ETH and to operate the CDL on the Jacobite. There was no generator van in the consist including 45212.

This video shows what is said to be the Jacobite stock heading north from Carlisle, hauled by 47245 and Black Five 45212. There appear to be four Mk2s (without hopper windows) in the consist.

 

[DelW]

That's a shame the train will have to have a diesel on the rear but I guess better to run the train with Aircon stock than not at all. Won't be the "Harry Potter" train though, so that interest stream might wane.....?

I doubt whether authenticity is too important to much of that market. The previously used standard class mk1s were open saloons not compartments and Black 5s look different from a maroon Hall. In other HP-related tourist venues, people ride in a cable-hauled "steam" train with screens instead of windows, so the Jacobite is several steps better than that even with a/c mk2s.

 

[Brompton Blue]

Some perspective, the scare stories in the press are maliciously misleading, omitting to mention WCR poor safety record and the fact that other operators have complied with a request to fit CDL and continue to run steam specials. We are talking about one operator running trains on the mainline, and this has little relevance to heritage lines running at slower speeds. To suggest that all coaches used on these lines be CDL fitted is just scared mongering. Aside from the cost being prohibitive one of the joys of visiting lines like the SVR, Bluebell and IoW is to travel on historic coaches. These are working museums offering the chance to recreate travel in days gone by, and to make too many sacrifices in the name of H&S would diminish that experience.

Mainline running is different, and stricter rules need to be applied. Fitting CDL on the Jacobite trains is unlikely to detract from the experience, where the main attractions are steam haulage, scenery and recreating a Harry Potter journey.

 

[peteb]

I doubt whether authenticity is too important to much of that market. The previously used standard class mk1s were open saloons not compartments and Black 5s look different from a maroon Hall. In other HP-related tourist venues, people ride in a cable-hauled "steam" train with screens instead of windows, so the Jacobite is several steps better than that even with a/c mk2s.

Open saloons feature in some of the Harry Potter films so I guess mk2's will give a similar experience, minus the opening toplights and general clanky noise associated with this sort of stock!!

 

[Bob figgis]

Surely for the true authentic Harry Potter experience crossing Glenfinnan Viaduct would be do it in an Old Ford Anglia that is able to fly. That’s how a Harry Potter aficionado would want to do it, would it not???

About 1:50 in to this, even the Harry Potter film shows exactly what can happen to an unsecured passenger door.

 

[Greybeard33]

After a night at Crianlarich, the Jacobite consist has now got to Fort William ready for service tomorrow.

Realtime Trains | 5Z12 1050 Carnforth Steamtown to Crianlarich | 13/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z12 1050 departure from Carnforth Steamtown to Crianlarich on 13/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z12 1300 Crianlarich to Tom Na Faire Depot | 14/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z12 1300 departure from Crianlarich to Tom Na Faire Depot on 14/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[nanstallon]

This is such a key point that I don’t understand why it hasn’t been made earlier. You only need to do a fraction of the overall fleet to make the Jacobite stock compliant, and at 30k per vehicle it would cost much less than WCR state themselves the service makes in profit in a year. And then how many other vehicles would be needed for, say, two rakes for other main line work - certainly nothing like the 100+ vehicles quoted as needing conversion.

This has the hallmark of sensible pragmatism. Much needed when you get two parties getting entrenched as has been happening.

 

[Rail Ranger]

After a night at Crianlarich, the Jacobite consist has now got to Fort William ready for service tomorrow.

Realtime Trains | 5Z12 1050 Carnforth Steamtown to Crianlarich | 13/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z12 1050 departure from Carnforth Steamtown to Crianlarich on 13/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z12 1300 Crianlarich to Tom Na Faire Depot | 14/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z12 1300 departure from Crianlarich to Tom Na Faire Depot on 14/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The train won't be "ready for service" without a power source for the ETS and the CDL. 47245 cannot provide such power. 37409 is at Fort William but it is owned by LSL......

 

[spyinthesky]

Realtime Trains | 5Y61 0845 Tom Na Faire Depot to Fort William | 14/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y61 0845 departure from Tom Na Faire Depot to Fort William on 14/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks to me like it is cancelled if this is the one. Further journeys look like empty coaching stock also cancelled

 

[Rail Ranger]

Realtime Trains | 5Y61 0845 Tom Na Faire Depot to Fort William | 14/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y61 0845 departure from Tom Na Faire Depot to Fort William on 14/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks to me like it is cancelled if this is the one. Further journeys look like empty coaching stock also cancelled

You are looking at today rather than tomorrow.

 

[spyinthesky]

You are looking at today rather than tomorrow.

Got me before I edited away

 

[D365]

The train won't be "ready for service" without a power source for the ETS and the CDL. 47245 cannot provide such power. 37409 is at Fort William but it is owned by LSL......

A pity that WCRC didn’t think to acquire more 37/4s …

 

[12LDA28C]

.... It's usual for a diesel loco to run as rear gunner on a steam charter train on the mainline. Regardless of aircon etc it is there for support in case of steam loco failure. Sometimes WCRC run a Class 47 (in their livery) as a shadow on a path about 10 minutes behind in case it is needed. The diesel loco can also assist in shunting while the steam loco goes off for more coal and water or to a turntable or loop to then face smokebox first on the return journey.

Indeed, but not usually on the Jacobite, although a standby loco is often stationed at Fort William.

There appear to be four Mk2s (without hopper windows) in the consist.

WCRC don't own any Mk2s with hopper windows - the set currently being modified with hoppers are owned by Riviera

 

[JonathanH]

WCRC don't own any Mk2s with hopper windows

They do have some Mk2s with hopper windows, most of the former Steam Dreams set which was early Mk2s with vacuum brakes, and the former 'afternoon Jacobite' set of slightly later Mk2s which has air brakes.

 

[peteb]

They do have some Mk2s with hopper windows, most of the former Steam Dreams set which was early Mk2s with vacuum brakes, and the former 'afternoon Jacobite' set of slightly later Mk2s which has air brakes.

Ah but do the Steam Dreams early mk2's have CDL? It would be nice to ride in that set again!

 

[AndyPJG]

Surely for the true authentic Harry Potter experience crossing Glenfinnan Viaduct would be do it in an Old Ford Anglia that is able to fly. That’s how a Harry Potter aficionado would want to do it, would it not???

But Anglias weren't fitted with CDL either!

 

[Bill57p9]

Ah but do the Steam Dreams early mk2's have CDL? It would be nice to ride in that set again!

Given they are vacuum braked, I take it they are original mk2 (mk2z?) with rectangular rather than wrap-around doors. They certainly won't have the compressed air main reservoir required for the BR standard CDL fit.
However as they are mk2 they will not require a regulation 4 (crashworthiness) exemption and therefore I would suggest a much better candidate for retrofitting some form of CDL than mk1s.

 

[12LDA28C]

They do have some Mk2s with hopper windows, most of the former Steam Dreams set which was early Mk2s with vacuum brakes, and the former 'afternoon Jacobite' set of slightly later Mk2s which has air brakes.

Those early Mk2s have sliding windows, which are not hopper windows which have a totally different opening mechanism.

 

[D1537]

The train won't be "ready for service" without a power source for the ETS and the CDL. 47245 cannot provide such power. 37409 is at Fort William but it is owned by LSL......

It's odd. 47s and 57s can go to Mallaig, and WCRC have plenty of those with ETS power ... except the one they sent up with the stock was not fitted.

 

[JonathanH]

Those early Mk2s have sliding windows, which are not hopper windows which have a totally different opening mechanism.

Oh yes, good point. They did have one of the former Virgin WC Mark 2s with hopper windows but don't think it ever made it into West Coast Railways Maroon.
www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=6237

 

[Nym]

It's odd. 47s and 57s can go to Mallaig, and WCRC have plenty of those with ETS power ... except the one they sent up with the stock was not fitted.

The availability on the 47s isn't amazing from what I've been hearing.

 

[peteb]

I saw a couple of Mk1's in the WCRC train headed up to Fort William. I assume support carriages are exempt from CDL and also kitchen cars?

 

[Dai Corner]

I saw a couple of Mk1's in the WCRC train headed up to Fort William. I assume support carriages are exempt from CDL and also kitchen cars?

Yes, as long as they're not carrying fare-paying passengers. Staff, contractors etc are assumed to be suitably trained in operation of slam doors without CDL.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes, as long as they're not carrying fare-paying passengers. Staff, contractors etc are assumed to be suitably trained in operation of slam doors without CDL.

Can the doors be kept locked and the carriages used by passengers, but with passengers using CDL doors in adjacent carriages?

A bit odd to have a coach with seats and a miniature buffet (1860) which only staff can access.

 

[PG]

Can the doors be kept locked and the carriages used by passengers, but with passengers using CDL doors in adjacent carriages?

I'd have thought that would not be allowed - I don't fancy being in a carriage with the only escape exits being a corridor connection at each end.

 

[DarloRich]

"Harry Potter" train though, so that interest stream might wane

why will it not be the "harry potter train"? Do you think small children and the average tourist will care what carriage is used?

Honestly - why cant posters here grasp how inconsequential this carriage nonsense is to the average punter? After all, it doesn't seem to cause them much of a problem that the loco used to haul this train isn't in the film................

 

[Greybeard33]

The train won't be "ready for service" without a power source for the ETS and the CDL. 47245 cannot provide such power. 37409 is at Fort William but it is owned by LSL......

RTT indicates that the Jacobite departed Fort William for Mallaig at 10:18 this morning....

Realtime Trains | 2Y61 1015 Fort William to Mallaig | 15/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 2Y61 1015 departure from Fort William to Mallaig on 15/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Dai Corner]

I'd have thought that would not be allowed - I don't fancy being in a carriage with the only escape exits being a corridor connection at each end.

Particularly a kitchen car with it's increased risk of catching fire. Do they use gas to cook?

 

[Rail Ranger]

RTT indicates that the Jacobite departed Fort William for Mallaig at 10:18 this morning....

Realtime Trains | 2Y61 1015 Fort William to Mallaig | 15/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 2Y61 1015 departure from Fort William to Mallaig on 15/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

We don't know what the consist of the train is yet.

 

[Essan]

why will it not be the "harry potter train"? Do you think small children and the average tourist will care what carriage is used?

Honestly - why cant posters here grasp how inconsequential this carriage nonsense is to the average punter? After all, it doesn't seem to cause them much of a problem that the loco used to haul this train isn't in the film................

Aye - and I am pretty sure the train in the films doesn't have "West Coast Railways" emblazoned in bright gold lettering on the side of the coaches, either!