Weird pricing! Price jumps massively one station up the line?!

[Zippy77777]

A return train ticket to go and see mother is £46.60. Go one stop up the line for £3.50 or £1.65 by bus which is really no hardship and quite straight forward, the price becomes £18.00, a staggering £28.60 difference!! MADNESS!!!
How can this be?

It has something to do with buying an advance ticket which I cannot do from my station but I can one stop up the line. I don't get it.

It's the same train!

 

[Dai Corner]

A return train ticket to go and see mother is £46.60. Go one stop up the line for £3.50 or £1.65 by bus which is really no hardship and quite straight forward, the price becomes £18.00, a staggering £28.60 difference!! MADNESS!!!
How can this be?

It has something to do with buying an advance ticket which I cannot do from my station but I can one stop up the line. I don't get it.

It's the same train!

Between which stations are you travelling, and when?

 

[Zippy77777]

Between which stations are you travelling, and when?

From Ashford (Surrey) to Durrington-on-sea (return) tomorrow 15th Oct returning Monday 19th. One stop up the line at Feltham the prices are so much cheaper.

I did book a few days back to get the advanced fare.

 

[Fyldeboy]

A return train ticket to go and see mother is £46.60. Go one stop up the line for £3.50 or £1.65 by bus which is really no hardship and quite straight forward, the price becomes £18.00, a staggering £28.60 difference!! MADNESS!!!
How can this be?

It has something to do with buying an advance ticket which I cannot do from my station but I can one stop up the line. I don't get it.

It's the same train!

Whilst not answering your question, this is why many people use the 'split ticketing' websites like the one recently introduced by this forum

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A return train ticket to go and see mother is £46.60. Go one stop up the line for £3.50 or £1.65 by bus which is really no hardship and quite straight forward, the price becomes £18.00, a staggering £28.60 difference!! MADNESS!!!
How can this be?

It has something to do with buying an advance ticket which I cannot do from my station but I can one stop up the line. I don't get it.

It's the same train!

How long do you have? The fare system is, to put it mildly, a complex tangle of different operators, regulations and formulae that takes years of training and experience to understand.

You've basically stumbled upon "split ticketing" which is a way of gaming the anomalies of the system in your favour.

 

[Halish Railway]

It seems like there are a few cases in which the price of a ticket is inversely proportional to the distance travelled.

For example:
Birmingham New Street to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £21.75

Rugby to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £24.05

???????

 

[Zippy77777]

Whilst not answering your question, this is why many people use the 'split ticketing' websites like the one recently introduced by this forum

I am new, plz link me too it if you can.

How long do you have? The fare system is, to put it mildly, a complex tangle of different operators, regulations and formulae that takes years of training and experience to understand.

You've basically stumbled upon "split ticketing" which is a way of gaming the anomalies of the system in your favour.

NICE. Makes a change to find something that works in my favour

 

[Dai Corner]

I am new, plz link me too it if you can.


NICE. Makes a change to find something that works in my favour

It's at the top of the page, and below

RailUK Tickets, powered by Trainsplit

The Split Ticketing Champions - Compare fares and get the best value for money through split tickets and booking cheap train tickets online and on our mobile app, E-Tickets to your phone, no booking fee, save up to 90%

tickets.railforums.co.uk

 

[Fyldeboy]

I am new, plz link me too it if you can.

Just click on the word Tickets in the top menu of the page

 

[Zippy77777]

Thank you guys. Looks like I a stumbled upon the best price by accident although I did spend some time trying to find a decent price. This split ticketing link is awesome and I wished I had known about it sooner. Makes me wonder what else is out there waiting to be discovered Thx again

 

[Dai Corner]

Thank you guys. Looks like I a stumbled upon the best price by accident although I did spend some time trying to find a decent price. This split ticketing link is awesome and I wished I had known about it sooner. Makes me wonder what else is out there waiting to be discovered Thx again

You're welcome.

Enjoy your time with your mother. Hope she cooks you a nice Sunday dinner!

 

[AM9]

Thank you guys. Looks like I a stumbled upon the best price by accident although I did spend some time trying to find a decent price. This split ticketing link is awesome and I wished I had known about it sooner. Makes me wonder what else is out there waiting to be discovered Thx again

Beware though, many tickets have restrictions on them that mean the train used must stop at the station where the journey transfers from one ticket validity to another. That is the benefit of using a ticket splitting website like Trainsplit where ticket combinations sold will make the journey valid.

 

[Zippy77777]

You're welcome.

Enjoy your time with your mother. Hope she cooks you a nice Sunday dinner!

Thank you, I'll make sure of it

Beware though, many tickets have restrictions on them that mean the train used must stop at the station where the journey transfers from one ticket validity to another. That is the benefit of using a ticket splitting website like Trainsplit where ticket combinations sold will make the journey valid.

Awesome, thank you

 

[Tetchytyke]

In addition, please be aware it is not permitted to start or finish short on an advance ticket. I know it doesn't apply in this case, but sometimes it is cheaper to go one stop further; you are expected, at the least, to buy a ticket back from that station to your intended destination.

 

[Zippy77777]

In addition, please be aware it is not permitted to start or finish short on an advance ticket. I know it doesn't apply in this case, but sometimes it is cheaper to go one stop further; you are expected, at the least, to buy a ticket back from that station to your intended destination.

So what you are saying is that even though the train that passes through Feltham, passed through Ashford 3 minutes earlier, don't catch that train from Ashford?

Pay the extra £3.50 or get the bus?

 

[RJ]

Makes me wonder what else is out there waiting to be discovered

Lots, if you’re prepared to read the rules and shed validity that you might not need.

 

[Haywain]

Pay the extra £3.50 or get the bus?

Yes.

 

[Zippy77777]

Yes.

I would anyway. Inspectors scare me lol

 

[Fyldeboy]

So what you are saying is that even though the train that passes through Feltham, passed through Ashford 3 minutes earlier, don't catch that train from Ashford?

if your 'split ticket' runs from Ashford to Durrington, you can't get on at Feltham or off at West Worthing. You can board the train at Staines or go to Littlehampton by paying the extra.

WRT you getting a better price than the split ticketing site - I think that's because you were wise enough to book early enough to get advanced tickets.

 

[andylikestrain]

Lots, if you’re prepared to read the rules and shed validity that you might not need.

I’m intrigued! How can I start to discover all this ticket & validity knowledge?

 

[Dai Corner]

I’m intrigued! How can I start to discover all this ticket & validity knowledge?

Go to the link at the top of the page or search 'Fares Workshops' in the forum

 

[JonathanH]

The reason here is simply a different operator pricing the tickets and different levels of flexibility.

The fare quoted from Ashford to Durrington is a flexible off-peak return priced by SWR.

The fare quoted from Feltham to Durrington is a pair of advance tickets priced by Southern and only available on a specific train.

There are no advance fares from Ashford to Durrington because Southern don't price journeys for this pair of stations.

Basically, the routes were carved up before privatisation to have different faresetters. All the former Network South East operators price their own journeys between stations outside London those within Zone 6. For journeys which go through London, one operator took precedence over another, so SWR price fares from their area into the Southern area even though the Southern part of the journey is longer. Just how it is.

 

[RJ]

I’m intrigued! How can I start to discover all this ticket & validity knowledge?

It starts with the Conditions of Travel - knowledge of how and when a ticket can be used and which routes you are entitled to take will save you money.

Once you understand what's in there, you can find tools like split ticketing websites and documents which contain information that can help you make informed decisions about what you buy.

Some basic computer skills knowledge can help with extracting more useful information that can same your money, as can an appreciation of the history of train operators and related pricing policies.

My own knowledge on tickets is only elementary - it's all I can do to buy a Travelcard to get around London. But I bow to the knowledge and dedication of a number of forum members, particularly the Fares Workshop crew who have it figured out!

 

[Watershed]

The reason here is simply a different operator pricing the tickets and different levels of flexibility.

The fare quoted from Ashford to Durrington is a flexible off-peak return priced by SWR.

The fare quoted from Feltham to Durrington is a pair of advance tickets priced by Southern and only available on a specific train.

There are no advance fares from Ashford to Durrington because Southern don't price journeys for this pair of stations.

Basically, the routes were carved up before privatisation to have different faresetters. All the former Network South East operators price their own journeys between stations outside London those within Zone 6. For journeys which go through London, one operator took precedence over another, so SWR price fares from their area into the Southern area even though the Southern part of the journey is longer. Just how it is.

Indeed and whilst Southern set Southern & SWR Advances, SWR don't set SWR & Southern Advances. So it's purely an artefact of the fact that Feltham is the last station priced by Southern whereas fares from Ashford to Durrington are priced by SWR.

Arguably this shouldn't be the case, as the most logical and quickest route - whether from Feltham or Ashford - is generally to go via Clapham Junction or London, and Clapham Junction to Durrington is priced by Southern. But it's just one of those historic quirks.

 

[Peter0124]

It seems like there are a few cases in which the price of a ticket is inversely proportional to the distance travelled.

For example:
Birmingham New Street to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £21.75

Rugby to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £24.05

???????

What stops someone boarding at Rugby having bought the cheaper Birmingham fare? I would assume BoJ isnt valid then.

 

[JonathanH]

Indeed and whilst Southern set Southern & SWR Advances, SWR don't set SWR & Southern Advances.

SWR set advances for their routes to stations in Zones 1-6 but they are SWR+Connections. Advances from Winchester to Coulsdon South are available but not Winchester to Merstham for example, in exactly the analogous manner to the OP's issue.

 

[yorkie]

How long do you have? The fare system is, to put it mildly, a complex tangle of different operators, regulations and formulae that takes years of training and experience to understand.

That said the fares system is a lot more transparent than Ryanair fares and no-one argues with their claim that their fares are "simple"

In many ways what is considered "complex" about our fares is the fact you can get a fare for almost any journey; it's just that the fare may be higher than the sum of the parts, or it may be cheaper to go further. The same happens on other transport modes, especially airlines.

You can never make a "simple" system that ticks all boxes, though if anyone wants to propose one, I enjoy reading the proposals (in the Speculative Discussion section!)

It seems like there are a few cases in which the price of a ticket is inversely proportional to the distance travelled.

For example:
Birmingham New Street to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £21.75

Rugby to London Euston, LNWR only off-peak return, with a railcard = £24.05

???????

Are you posting this here in the hope that West Midlands Trains (who operate the LNR brand) will increase the cheaper fare? If so, there's certainly a chance of that happening! ;0

Thank you guys. Looks like I a stumbled upon the best price by accident although I did spend some time trying to find a decent price. This split ticketing link is awesome and I wished I had known about it sooner. Makes me wonder what else is out there waiting to be discovered

Thx again

Check out the 'sticky' thread at the top of this forum section: Introducing RailUK Tickets - support the forum when booking your rail tickets!

I’m intrigued! How can I start to discover all this ticket & validity knowledge?

Vote in the fares workshops thread and subscribe to the thread and keep an eye on it for opportunities to attend; the workshops are free. I may run one this Saturday as I may have some spare time to do so (long story short, I was going to do a long walk but I think I need to protect my injury so may do a shorter walk) but it looks like there isn't sufficient interest, but I'll decide on that tomorrow.

 

[JonathanH]

You can never make a "simple" system that ticks all boxes, though if anyone wants to propose one, I enjoy reading the proposals (in the Speculative Discussion section!)

That is true but the different fares charged in the South East for Cross London journeys up to the London boundaries and then beyond lead to some very odd anomalies (such as the one observed in this instance) that will probably be fixed by the extension of PAYG, not necessarily in favour of the passenger.

 

[Watershed]

SWR set advances for their routes to stations in Zones 1-6 but they are SWR+Connections. Advances from Winchester to Coulsdon South are available but not Winchester to Merstham for example, in exactly the analogous manner to the OP's issue.

Yes, so there aren't any SWR & Southern Advances

That is true but the different fares charged in the South East for Cross London journeys up to the London boundaries and then beyond lead to some very odd anomalies (such as the one observed in this instance) that will probably be fixed by the extension of PAYG, not necessarily in favour of the passenger.

It depends on what the pricing is based on. If it's the same as the recent extensions of Oyster/contactless PAYG to Reading etc. then it certainly won't be in favour of passengers in all respects.

 

[paddy1]

Kidsgrove to Rugeley Trent Valley Anytime Day Return £15.10. Kidsgrove to Rugeley Town Anytime Day Return £37.20. The Trent Valley is only valid direct from Stafford. The 'Town' fare is either 'via Wolverhampton' or 'any Permitted' (via Birmingham), both same price (there is no lower priced via 'Trent Valley' fare to Rugeley Town from Kidsgrove). But why would you want to do that unless you also wanted to visit Wolverhampton/Birmingham/any other station en route same day?