West Midlands Trains December 2018

[Old Hill Bank]

WMT have plans to alter how services work through Birmingham New Street from the December timetable change.
What we know so far is that the electrified Chase Line services are planned to operate through to International with every other one down to Euston.
The GOBLIN 172s come to WMR and will be deployed on the Kenilworth and Nuneaton jobs with the remainder to Snow Hill capacity enhancement.
Shrewsbury goes half houry.
Liverpools run through from international or beyond.

With the planned Stoke service as an extension of the Wolves stoppers and the need to put extra capacity on the Herefords it will be interesting to see how this all works.

 

[The Planner]

This isnt news though is it? Wait to see if they get their wish for May 19 (which I can't divulge here yet)

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a lot terminating at International. Would an additional platform enter consideration? They have certainly built it with the space for another island on the NEC side.

 

[HLE]

This isnt news though is it? Wait to see if they get their wish for May 19 (which I can't divulge here yet)

Through service to Leamington from Nuneaton? Be even better if it’s on top of the existing Nuneaton service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Anyone any idea on what the WMT paths/times are to Shrewsbury.

From New ST the xx24 ATW semi fast regularly catches up the xx05 WMT stopper around Telford/Wellington which can run a little late.

 

[Idon'tKnow]

This isnt news though is it? Wait to see if they get their wish for May 19 (which I can't divulge here yet)

Half hourly Trent valley line services hopefully

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That's a lot terminating at International. Would an additional platform enter consideration? They have certainly built it with the space for another island on the NEC side.

Platform 3 currently allows northbound arrivals and departures without any conflict, so you could probably still make everything fit if the turnarounds work, especially if the existing New St to International shuttle is absorbed into the extended Liverpool or Chase line service. Alternatively you could probably stick something in 1 and it could sit there for as long as necessary: only XC northbound are booked in there IIRC and I hace never worked out why.

Anyone any idea on what the WMT paths/times are to Shrewsbury.

From New ST the xx24 ATW semi fast regularly catches up the xx05 WMT stopper around Telford/Wellington which can run a little late.

Aren't they just utilising the existing peak extra path (xx49 ex New St?) off peak? Not sure about eastbound.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Aren't they just utilising the existing peak extra path (xx49 ex New St?) off peak? Not sure about eastbound.

So XX05 WMT, XX25 ATW & XX49 WMT for Shrewsbury?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Through service to Leamington from Nuneaton? Be even better if it’s on top of the existing Nuneaton service.

WMT are still saying the through service will start in December.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

So XX05 WMT, XX25 ATW & XX49 WMT for Shrewsbury?

Not seen any times but the additional working is to be a limited stop as opposed to all stations.

 

[The Planner]

That's a lot terminating at International. Would an additional platform enter consideration? They have certainly built it with the space for another island on the NEC side.

There is room for a P6 but not an island. You don't really need it as after the bank holiday works every platform is reversible now.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Not seen any times but the additional working is to be a limited stop as opposed to all stations.

Which FINALLY gets us back to where we used to be, in 1996. Two fast, one stopper each hour.

 

[Batman]

This is the first I’ve heard of chase line service being extended past New Street. I thought the plan was to interwork the Birmingham-Rugeley semi-fasts with the Birmingham-Walsall stoppers.

I’ve got a funny feeling the whole idea of running more long distance services through new street as through services is going to cause big reliability problems just like in Central Trains days.

And won’t the whole thing have to be put on hold if chase line electrification and/or platform extensions aren’t finished I time?

 

[Batman]

Which FINALLY gets us back to where we used to be, in 1996. Two fast, one stopper each hour.

Wasn’t that back in the days when the stopper used to go to Walsall direct instead of Birmingham.

 

[Dr Strider]

That's a lot terminating at International. Would an additional platform enter consideration? They have certainly built it with the space for another island on the NEC side.

Isn't that one Rugeley and one Liverpool terminating each hour. Plus the presumably the ATW, hopefully just about enough room to fit them all in.

Come to think of it, will there be much WMT terminating at Birmingham New Street (BHM) any more, once the Liverpools and the Chase services become through workings? I suppose the Shrewsbury / Hereford services will carry on terminating at BHM. It would be nice if they could be interlinked into a through service but I guess the pathing within BHM is probably quite tricky.

Dr Strider

 

[Old Hill Bank]

This is the first I’ve heard of chase line service being extended past New Street. I thought the plan was to interwork the Birmingham-Rugeley semi-fasts with the Birmingham-Walsall stoppers.

I’ve got a funny feeling the whole idea of running more long distance services through new street as through services is going to cause big reliability problems just like in Central Trains days.

And won’t the whole thing have to be put on hold if chase line electrification and/or platform extensions aren’t finished I time?

Keep up mate.
https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/about-us/news-desk/extra-services-way-chase-line

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Wasn’t that back in the days when the stopper used to go to Walsall direct instead of Birmingham.

That was later, it was originally a Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury with occasional extensions to Birmingham.

 

[Batman]

That was later, it was originally a Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury with occasional extensions to Birmingham.

I think through running to Walsall lasted from about 2000 to 2005 IIRC. I remember 153’s being the regular units on that service and Cosford, Oakengates and possibly Bilbrook only got calls every 2 hours hours off peak.

 

[Batman]

Keep up mate.
https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/about-us/news-desk/extra-services-way-chase-line

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I dread to think how unreliable that service will be.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Traditionally (ie; before about 1990) the entire service terminated at Wolverhampton except for a couple of peak-hours services. The route was served generally hourly all-stations, running to either Chester or Aberystwyth. Every 2-3 hours there was a through Shrewsbury-Euston service via Birmingham. Amazing if you think about it now!

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the Chase running to International and Euston, and possibly the Liverpool Lime Street running to International and Euston, how would this work bearing in mind Liverpool and the Chase are broadly every 30 minutes, and the Eustons are every 20 minutes?

When I was at primary school in my native West Midlands many years ago, 20 into 30 does not go.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Traditionally (ie; before about 1990) the entire service terminated at Wolverhampton except for a couple of peak-hours services. The route was served generally hourly all-stations, running to either Chester or Aberystwyth. Every 2-3 hours there was a through Shrewsbury-Euston service via Birmingham. Amazing if you think about it now!

Before intercity pulled out of Shrewsbury it was hourly all stations to Wolves then the Intercity was every two hours and the Cambrian services were in between the Intercity's giving roughly an hourly service from New St.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Regarding the Chase running to International and Euston, and possibly the Liverpool Lime Street running to International and Euston, how would this work bearing in mind Liverpool and the Chase are broadly every 30 minutes, and the Eustons are every 20 minutes?

When I was at primary school in my native West Midlands many years ago, 20 into 30 does not go.

Knock through one of each and start the third ex-New St, with dwell at New St accordingly. You would hope anything being knocked through Birmingham New St over such a distance will have a fair amount of dwell (or other such recovery time), so manipulating it to work shouldn't be too difficult. The fiddle a few years ago to combine the Euston and Birmingham trains at Northampton is similar - they sit at Northampton for anything between c. 2-15 minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the Chase running to International and Euston, and possibly the Liverpool Lime Street running to International and Euston, how would this work bearing in mind Liverpool and the Chase are broadly every 30 minutes, and the Eustons are every 20 minutes?

When I was at primary school in my native West Midlands many years ago, 20 into 30 does not go.

They're not all running through, just 1tph of each.

 

[adrock1976]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Regarding the present 15 or so minutes layover at Northampton for some trains, is that also a throwback to when the Crewe via Stoke-on-Trent used to run via Northampton, with it uncoupling/coupling with a Birmingham portion?

I seem to remember when the Network SouthEast Class 317s and 321s did not have much of a layover at Northampton, but the frequency back then was a train every 60 minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Regarding the present 15 or so minutes layover at Northampton for some trains, is that also a throwback to when the Crewe via Stoke-on-Trent used to run via Northampton, with it uncoupling/coupling with a Birmingham portion?

I seem to remember when the Network SouthEast Class 317s and 321s did not have much of a layover at Northampton, but the frequency back then was a train every 60 minutes.

No, the layover is for pathing reasons, as well as many trains do gain and lose coaches at Northampton. It also serves to make the service quite punctual.

 

[Geezertronic]

There is room for a P6 but not an island. You don't really need it as after the bank holiday works every platform is reversible now.

It's a shame they cannot put a New Street facing 8-car platform next to P1 on top of the Short Stay car park (which moves outwards as there is a stack of space before the multi-storey is reached). That would cut down on conflicting movements by putting trains into P5 which would then need to cross the tracks when it leaves to go back towards New Street

 

[The Planner]

You have the same problem going into P1 though? Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Geezertronic]

You have the same problem going into P1 though? Swings and roundabouts.

But a train from New Street into P1 and back out towards New Street again doesn't cross the tracks in the same way a train out of P5 towards New Street does. It seems strange to me when the ATW train is in P5 because it then has to cross the "up" on its way to New Street again. So my (lack of and fantasy) thought was that an additional platform could be added next to P1, like P1 & P3, to stop conflicting movements. That way, trains from New Street into P4 can proceed unimpeded.

 

[The Planner]

But it crosses infront of anything in 1, 2 and 3 on the way in? So its moot as you conflict with down trains?