If I put for example Yeovil Junction to Exeter Central return on Saturday (6th April) National Rail shows trains running (direct) but against all journey shows "No Fares Available". The journey times do not look to be longer than usual (around 1 hour) so what is going on? Have train fares become some sort of state secret?! I also tried on the forum own site but that doesn't show anything at all just "Sorry an error has occured".
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West of England Line "No Fares available" on Saturday
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Mcr Warrior
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Is this possibly another example of pseudo-compulsory reservations being required, and they've all been taken?
SWR don't offer reservations.
The trains are all shown as 'Reservations Compulsory', and I expect no quotas have been programmed / allocated.
For example
Realtime Trains | 1L13 0817 Southampton Central to Exeter St Davids | 06/04/2024
Real-time train running information for 1L13 0817 departure from Southampton Central to Exeter St Davids on 06/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
SWR do counted place reservations. I suggest passengers buy a ticket at a machine - at a guess they are reserving space for local passengers and blocking people hoping to travel long distance with them due to GWR being on strike. The action has the simple effect of not making the services appear in booking engines while still running.
They've deliberately altered all the trains so they now terminate at Southampton and don't continue from there to Waterloo (like they originally did and do on Sunday). As via Southampton is not a permitted route from London to Exeter they effectively have blocked through travel by forcing people onto the slower rail replacement buses. I guess they are assuming that enough people will be put off and the buses won't become overloaded. It could get quite messy if they are wrong!
It does indeed appear that trains on the West of England route have been falsely marked as "reservations compulsory" in the timetable data for that date, with reservations not being released.
This dishonest practice is likely the result of attempts to stop people from buying tickets before the timetable on (or around) strike days is confirmed, but it really has no place on any part of the railway. There are better mechanisms for managing the sale of tickets on specific dates; this is just the most convenient, "cheap and nasty" solution.
They also appear to have timed the replacement buses from Salisbury to Andover so as to depart only 2 minutes after the arrival of each train from Exeter. Call me a cynic but - given that you then have 20 minutes to wait for the connecting train at Andover - this smacks of a deliberate attempt to put people off travelling by train to/from the southwest on that date by making it appear as inconvenient as possible...
Kite159
Veteran Member
And no doubt the Basingstoke - Andover shuttle will be a single 3 coach unit with the replacement bus lottery having the longish detour to serve Grateley being extra busy with passengers from Salisbury (assuming they actually run)
They don't offer allocated seating, but they do engage in this practice:
except, rather than being "all taken" there is simply no quota.
LNER, EMR and others engage in this behaviour.
For just one example (out of many), see the following thread:
No fares available please choose another journey
I never used to see this message but nowadays it sometimes pops up. Today for trains from Leicester to London St P it is showing several consecutive trains like this. I am booked on the 11:12. Does the above message mean that my train will be completely full? Thanks for any information. Best...
www.railforums.co.uk
So, they don't want money? Strange.
The opposite behavour can be seen at Blackwater (amongst other stations on the North Downs Line). Since GWR started offering Advances to Gatwick (weirdly on only half of the through services), getting a decently priced Advance to anywhere else in the country is problematic, to say the least.
The best example I've come across was the cheapest Blackwater - Cardiff itinerary being £70+ more expensive than Reading - Cardiff on the same trains from and to Reading, when two Anytime Singles from Blackwater - Reading total to £19.80. If the journey is a day trip the Anytime Day Return is £11.10.
Asking for £50-60+ extra to travel the 26 mile return journey between Blackwater and Reading is quite the "achievement".
If TOCs want to play at being Ryanair, may I suggest more work is needed?
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It's presumably because GWR are affected by strike action on Saturday and there are no trains from Exeter to Paddington. SWR don't have that much capacity comparatively and will want to put people off. If there appeared to be a decent service running when people looked in a journey planner the trains would be overloaded.
Then the right approach is to add more capacity, e.g. run the services as 9 coaches. It's not exactly as if they'll be short of units, with Salisbury-Andover shut and trains east of the block running as a shuttle to Basingstoke. Have coaches on standby as a backup measure.
Lying to the public by claiming you can't travel, when trains are running and you're in receipt of a public subsidy to the tune of tens of millions of pounds a year, is inexcusable.
But then again, it's reflective of the prevailing attitude across the British rail industry. The most operationally convenient option is almost always taken; passengers are a mere afterthought.
I think you're being overly cynical and not considering operational realities here.
Can 9 coach services even fit on the platforms/in the passing loops at any stations on the West of England line?
Do people really want to go from Exeter to London via Southampton taking more or less 4 hours?
Are there enough 159s to run an hourly 9 coach service from Exeter, plus the Andover-Basingstoke shuttle, plus the Romsey loop services? (I believe there are 29 159 sets available, 7 of which are ex-158s with less power.)
Are you saying there should be a through service, and if so can 159s keep up line speed from Southampton to Waterloo without messing up timing for the 444s that also have to fit in? (I suspect not)
I put it to you that SWR is doing its best with the hand that it's been dealt, save that blocking ticket sales on local journeys is poor form.
Haywain
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Passing loops, yes; platforms, no.
Do they have Selective Door Opening?
Certainly not at all platforms but AIUI they have at least a rudimentary form of SDO. If not, individual coaches' doors could be locked out of use as required (certainly not a novel procedure) or, in extremis, stations with platforms that are too short could be skipped with replacement buses put on. Even a replacement bus is better than falsely being told you can't travel!
As a former timetable planner, I am perfectly aware of the kinds of constraints that often arise in these situations. At the end of the day there are options - SWR just chose the easy way out.
Well evidently SWR are concerned that people might want to do so, otherwise one imagines they wouldn't have marked the trains as reservations compulsory!
I presume the extension to Southampton was part of an earlier, more enlightened plan to divert West of England Line passengers to London via Southampton. But even if you kept that element (which is arguably optional), you are talking about:
- 6 circuits for Exeter-Southampton - so 18 units, if all formed of 9 coaches
- 1 circuit for Andover-Basingstoke - so at most 2 units, as it wouldn't need to be more than 6 coaches if you had London passengers going via Southampton
- 3 circuits for the Romsey rocket - so at most 3 units, as again it wouldn't need to be strenghened
No. All I am saying (and I am surprised at how controversial this is, on Railforums of all places!) is that SWR should have left the timetable as it was and strengthened services.
I suspect it's more a question of there not being any (reasonable) additional paths available, regardless of speed. But given their 90mph top speed, there is barely any difference between a 159 and 444 even over that sort of distance.
And I put it to you that they are taking what they see as the easy way out, which is benefitting no-one but themselves.
At the end of the day the strengthening that is going to happen is between zero and maybe one or two diagrams as five or six rather than as three.
Look at it this way: if SWR had the money to run adequate-capacity on the West of England, GWR would have had the money to settle the pay claim.
I disagree strongly with making a service reservation compulsory unless it actually is compulsory, but strengthening trains to nine car wasn't going to happen.
I suspect the view from senior management at SWR is that given the choice between overcrowded trains and empty trains they strongly prefer the latter. It's difficult to blame them too, given they'd get no meaningful credit for growing the sales, and they'll get to trouser public subsidy for running an empty train.
The services were originally through to Waterloo.via Southampton on Saturday, as often happens without fouling up paths, but SWR changed them after the strikes were announced. They are running thru on Sunday still as no strike.
They used to run a 9 car train from Exeter to Salisbuty at the end of the day using SDO and the 0550 from Axminster comes from.Salisbury empty as 9 and the back 3 are detached at Honiton. Does 9 car fit any station, no Idont think. I also don't think it would fit in Tisbury loop so its totally unviable even with rolling stock, but they do run west of Salisbury.
They used to run a 9 car train from Exeter to Salisbuty at the end of the day using SDO and the 0550 from Axminster comes from.Salisbury empty as 9 and the back 3 are detached at Honiton. Does 9 car fit any station, no Idont think. I also don't think it would fit in Tisbury loop so its totally unviable even with rolling stock, but they do run west of Salisbury.
Given that GWR are, are a separate company why are SWR bothered?
GWR have done the opposite of this today, by not taking into account other train companies and running no rail replacement bus service between Guildford and Gatwick Airport/Redhill, as their engineering works noticed says they will be doing.
GWR have done the opposite of this today, by not taking into account other train companies and running no rail replacement bus service between Guildford and Gatwick Airport/Redhill, as their engineering works noticed says they will be doing.
GWR are affected by the ASLEF industrial action today, so have presumably withdrawn the buses on the basis that if there wasn't Engineering Work they wouldn't be running trains on the route either.
I think it's pretty good that SWT are running to Southampton and giving passengers the opportunity to pick up the London train from there.
Last year during engineering works the bus from Salisbury was the only official option and I had to pay extra to go via Southampton.
Last year during engineering works the bus from Salisbury was the only official option and I had to pay extra to go via Southampton.
This policy of withdrawing replacement buses on strike days is complete nonsense. There's absolutely no defence to it; the contracted bus suppliers will undoubtedly still get paid (or at least charge a fee towards their lost profits), and there is no reason they couldn't operate. It's just a dogmatic policy.
As it happens, GWR actually are running some services to and from Reading, so it's not as if Gatwick buses would be the only service being run.
But their aren't trans running and by doing this it gives the impression they support the drivers striking.
Perhaps they do. I do.
I believe there were a small number of trains running.
On a very small number of routes, where there is little alternative to the train. The service this Saturday was significantly more restricted than other strikes which have been on weekdays.
Yes but not the rail replacement bus. Anyway I didn't need to get into it here in a big way. More highlighting the contrasting ways things were happening as it seemed to me as someone who doesn't work for either SWR or GWR.
Well I used the service on Saturday and bought a ticket from the machine. On the way west I counted a maximum of 4 passengers in the entire carriage (it was 6 carriages in total). On the way back it was busier, around 1/4 full. However it seems the SWR plan to scare away most passengers worked well. Honestly I think this is an absolutely mad "policy". We keep hearing costs of running the railway have gone up and here's a good example as to why - operators that would prefer to run trains with no one on them by making it difficult or impossible to by tickets online and giving the impression that no tickets even exist.
Kite159
Veteran Member
SWR get paid regardless if 10 passengers travel or 50 passengers travel. They simply don't care unless it involves a bonus criteria to get some free money from the government.
uglymonkey
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And don't forget the railway is always run for the benefit of the railway - not the "customers".
You could say actively discouraging customers helps reduce cleaning costs but I can't remember that last time a WoE train had cleaners on (they used to regularly board between Yeovil and Honiton and did a great job).
I cannot imagine that the cost of cleaning is in any way affected by the amount of cleaning undertaken. Cleaners are typically outsourced; the cleaning company will charge a set fee regardless of how much cleaning is done. If done in-house, again the cleaners will be paid the same salary or wage regardless of how many coaches they clean.