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West Ruislip & South Ruislip - Why the need for both on NR?

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A60stock

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I've always wondered this, but why do National Rail have a station at both West Ruislip and South Ruislip?

It seems quite strange to have stations this close (on a line which is clearly not a metro style one) for a line where both stations are already served by the frequent central line if you needed to quickly go from one to the other to connect to Chiltern. If one closed, surely it would just be a minor inconvenience in terms of how the line is used as you'd just use the central line to connect between the two.

The service pattern itself probably raises this question further, as in most cases, trains from Chiltern either call at one or the other and I believe there are only a handful of trains which call at both. I thought maybe its to do with the passing loops as one is on the Westbound and the other on the Eastbound, but then again, you could easily solve that by installing the additional fast line where it is currently missing at one of the stations.

I don't know if there are similar examples of this elsewhere in London (please do not compare this with the Elizabeth line between Bond Street and TCR, which are also both served by the central - completely different)

I suppose a similar argument could be raised for why there are two Sudburys on the same line, however, that one seems more obvious in that only one really connects to the Piccadilly line and there would be no other way to travel between the two by rail if one closed.

Anyway, which one would people say is the more logical one to close, if one HAD to be shut?
 
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West Ruislip would surely be most logical to shut. That way South Ruislip Chiltern passengers wouldn’t have to double back whilst West Ruislip Chiltern passengers would change to the Central line at South Ruislip.
 

A60stock

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Interesting, it depends, is there more traffic coming to these stations from Central London or from the Chiltern side. The opposite could be argued for those coming from the likes of Gerrards Cross, Birmingham, Oxford or wherever, who would have to double back to West Ruislip?
 

cle

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Interesting, it depends, is there more traffic coming to these stations from Central London or from the Chiltern side. The opposite could be argued for those coming from the likes of Gerrards Cross, Birmingham, Oxford or wherever, who would have to double back to West Ruislip?
I don't think that many people are getting on/off at West Ruislip (or Ruislip Gardens, lol, who would have to double back at SR - as a % of Chiltern users)

I would say South Ruislip makes most sense to stay, being the junction (and especially if Chiltern ever get to OOC) - and then have it four tracked from there...
 

CyrusWuff

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I don't think that many people are getting on/off at West Ruislip (or Ruislip Gardens, lol, who would have to double back at SR - as a % of Chiltern users)

I would say South Ruislip makes most sense to stay, being the junction (and especially if Chiltern ever get to OOC) - and then have it four tracked from there...
Except South Ruislip doesn't have a car park, nor step-free access (granted West Ruislip only has it to the Southbound NR platform) and it's got a low bridge that makes it difficult for rail replacement buses to serve it.
 

Sad Sprinter

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I've always wondered this too.

My ideal world is a quarter hourly Denham to Marylebone London Overground service, operated with class 172s. Maybe with a station at Neasden to interchange with the Dudden Hill line, it could generate more custom.

Maybe finally extend the Central to Denham and get rid of the Ruislips altogether on the Chiltern?
 

CyrusWuff

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I've always wondered this too.

My ideal world is a quarter hourly Denham to Marylebone London Overground service, operated with class 172s. Maybe with a station at Neasden to interchange with the Dudden Hill line, it could generate more custom.

Maybe finally extend the Central to Denham and get rid of the Ruislips altogether on the Chiltern?
Before it was descoped, Phase 1 of Project Evergreen 3 was supposed to provide a new Down Bay at Gerrards Cross and various other alterations to allow for a "Chiltern Metro" service of 4tph between Marylebone and West Ruislip, calling at all stations, and enabling Gerrards Cross terminators to avoid blocking the Up Main to enter the turnback siding. (Though they'd then block the Down Main when departing back towards London, of course.)
 

Sad Sprinter

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Before it was descoped, Phase 1 of Project Evergreen 3 was supposed to provide a new Down Bay at Gerrards Cross and various other alterations to allow for a "Chiltern Metro" service of 4tph between Marylebone and West Ruislip, calling at all stations, and enabling Gerrards Cross terminators to avoid blocking the Up Main to enter the turnback siding. (Though they'd then block the Down Main when departing back towards London, of course.)
Unless they made an island platform with a terminating bay in the middle? That wouldn't create any conflicts
 

zwk500

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I don't think that many people are getting on/off at West Ruislip (or Ruislip Gardens, lol, who would have to double back at SR - as a % of Chiltern users)

I would say South Ruislip makes most sense to stay, being the junction (and especially if Chiltern ever get to OOC) - and then have it four tracked from there...
Worth remembering that South Ruislip only has a loop on the Down and West Ruislip only has a loop on the Up, so you'd need to do a fairly major rejuggle of services or fairly hefty infrastructure works to get a balanced service with only one of them. Also 4-tracking for that length would be next to pointless if you closed one of the stations and there isn't room to rebuild Northolt Park (Not sure if slows could get near enough to Denham for an overtake, you need an express to gain 6 minutes on a stopper to overtake).

If anything, I'd close South Ruislip, because it concentrates the interchange at the Central line terminus and it allows Chiltern to serve the marginally further out station which is the better journey time boost.
 

A0wen

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I suppose a similar argument could be raised for why there are two Sudburys on the same line, however, that one seems more obvious in that only one really connects to the Piccadilly line and there would be no other way to travel between the two by rail if one closed.

The Piccadilly line is very close by to both stations - Sudbury Hill Harrow and Sudbury Hill (Picc) are a 2 min / 0.1 mile walk apart, Sudbury & Harrow Road and Sudbury Town (Picc) are 0.3 miles / 6 min walk. Given the frequency difference between the Piccadilly and the Chiltern services, I'd be amazed if anyone uses the Chiltern services between the two - and that's before you consider the local buses as well.

Personally I'd close Sudbury & Harrow Road and keep Sudbury Hill Harrow.
 

12LDA28C

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West Ruislip would surely be most logical to shut. That way South Ruislip Chiltern passengers wouldn’t have to double back whilst West Ruislip Chiltern passengers would change to the Central line at South Ruislip.

Not really, for a variety of reasons. Trains from the north can more easily terminate at West Ruislip and reverse, and they occasionally do when there is engineering work south of that location. Also, West Ruislip is a designated PNB point for Chiltern drivers as it has a decent-sized station building with space for staff accommodation, as well as having a NR office in the same building whereas South Ruislip has no main line railway facilities at all.

I've always wondered this too.

My ideal world is a quarter hourly Denham to Marylebone London Overground service, operated with class 172s. Maybe with a station at Neasden to interchange with the Dudden Hill line, it could generate more custom.

Maybe finally extend the Central to Denham and get rid of the Ruislips altogether on the Chiltern?

What a bizarre proposal, and totally outside the scope of this thread.
 

Route115?

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In the 90s West Ruislip did lose its off-peak service apart from the late evening. That was a mistake in my view (possibly because it is my local station).

Doubling back added a lot of time to journeys. The stations are two miles apart and most people access them on foot. Not everyone has a car and do you want to encourage driving?

There is a reasonable amount of demand for both. If you were to offer a better service with good connections I am sure that demand would increase significantly but there is a limit to what you can do with a two track railway..

I checked the time from West Ruislip to Birmingham and the quickest way was to go via Marylebone a detour of 27 miles in each direction. Fortunately the trend now is to open stations rather than close them although in the current financial climate.
 

Railwaysceptic

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Except South Ruislip doesn't have a car park, nor step-free access (granted West Ruislip only has it to the Southbound NR platform) and it's got a low bridge that makes it difficult for rail replacement buses to serve it.
I don't think South Ruislip has public lavatories either whereas West Ruislip does.
 
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