What exactly did Thatcher do?

[317 forever]

Thatcher's rise to power was a case of good timing and the fact the British Public wanted change.

It's a touchy subject but some of the changes brought in such as banning secondary action and ballots as well as a notice period in my mind were a good thing in the long run. Scargill's own arrogance was what caused the miner's strikers to end so badly for him.

Furthermore, for all the claims made by the likes of Tony Benn about Thatcher clobbering the unions, in a way she gave trade union members more power. She did not ban strikes (except at GCHQ) but gave members the power to choose between voting to strike or to continuing to work and negotiate a settlement with their employers.

The strike ballots etc mean that even when we are inconvenienced by strikes, we know it is the members' choice and not an imposition by union leaders.

For those who don't understand a dictator / dictatorship can take many forms, not just the so called classical methods, Thatcher was as much a dictator as were others.

She purged her Cabinet of "wets", or moderates to be more precise, and coined her immoral / immortal phrase " is he one of us ?" when confronted with prospective candidates for Gov't related positions.

The "Spitting Image " sketch involving her ordering steak and being asked what about the vegetables ?...summarised her perfectly.

Although on the subject of other dictators, she extended her open arms and hospitality to another...a certain Gen Pinochet

Assuming LNER are actually running trains, how many of you have felt inclined to make a pilgrimage to Grantham and worship at her statue / shrine.

I found Grantham town centre good for takeaways (and Wetherspoon) on my visit in September 2022. Certainly better than another nearby rail interchange Sleaford.

 

[WesternLancer]

The remaining pits were privatised in the Major era, most of them going to RJB Mining I think.

Yes, quite correct. I suspect the 1992 closure programme was announced on the basis that there would be no or very limited interest in purchasing them without many being closed ahead of sale - since there would be no presumption of ongoing subsidy.

 

[nw1]

The poll tax was probably the one thing that turned me against not just her, but the Conservatives as a whole, for life. So in 1987 (when I couldn't vote) I wasn't that much against the Tories, probably because I hadn't matured politically, but in 1992 (when I could) I desperately wanted them out. Sadly it didn't happen that time.

Section 28, a little earlier, was a truly nasty and regressive piece of legislation - again, I wasn't mature enough at the time to have a strong view on it, but a couple of years later I certainly did. I can understand that Thatcher had certain economic beliefs, but Section 28 was quite something else.

Thatcher's friendship with the vile Pinochet, coupled with her dislike of Nelson Mandela, didn't make her look good either.

 

[8A Rail]

Irrespective of whether you like / dislike Labour / Conservatives, other names appear on the ballot sheet so you have alternatives available even if you don't like them either.

The point is, cast your vote, please.

Too many people died trying to ensure the population have a right to vote, which, for me, is a basic human right.

With regards to the latter point, I would agree with you but no point in casing a vote if there is only two (if we are lucky three) candidates, two being Labour and Conservative and / or The Green Party and I'm in a strong Labour held seat and believe me it will Labour next time whether I vote or not I'm afraid to say. I feel for the people who gave their lives for the right to vote, but please blame the political parties and electoral system for not honouring or caring about past history. Sorry.

 

[WesternLancer]

With regards to the latter point, I would agree with you but no point in casing a vote if there is only two (if we are lucky three) candidates, two being Labour and Conservative and / or The Green Party and I'm in a strong Labour held seat and believe me it will Labour next time whether I vote or not I'm afraid to say. I feel for the people who gave their lives for the right to vote, but please blame the political parties and electoral system for not honouring or caring about past history. Sorry.

A solution to this is to go to the polling station and spoil your ballot paper. Otherwise as far as it looks to the politicians - and indeed the wider commentators, there is no way to tell a principled non voter apart from someone who is just not bothered voting - eg if too idle to do so.

 

[507021]

I agree with you that we need electoral reform. But as a wider point, I'm not convinced that the present system (for all its faults) discourages radical thought any more than any other system. I would expect that with a PR system, it would be even harder to be truly radical because you'd need to have 50%+ of the population voting for parties willing to support your radical ideas, whereas with FPTP, you generally only need 40%+ to vote for your radical ideas in order to implement them (as Mrs. Thatcher did).

Why do you keep calling her Mrs Thatcher, but all other Prime Ministers by their surname only?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Why do you keep calling her Mrs Thatcher, but all other Prime Ministers by their surname only?

No reason that I'm conscious of - I'm simply referring to her in the way that feels normal.

Thinking a bit more, I suspect it's probably because when she was Prime Minister, 'Mrs. Thatcher' (along with 'Margaret Thatcher') was how people habitually referred to her, so that's what I became used to. That doesn't seem to have happened with more recent prime ministers, who I think most people would refer to with their full name - for example, I'm used to thinking of 'Theresa May' but I'm not used to hearing 'Mrs. May'.

 

[prod_pep]

A solution to this is to go to the polling station and spoil your ballot paper. Otherwise as far as it looks to the politicians - and indeed the wider commentators, there is no way to tell a principled non voter apart from someone who is just not bothered voting - eg if too idle to do so.

Another solution is to save your time and preserve your shoe leather by staying at home and exercising your right not to vote. Personally, I have better things to do than committing acts of petulance. As for the latter point, if it matters so much, perhaps there should be a 'none of the above' option on the ballot paper.

 

[WesternLancer]

Another solution is to save your time and preserve your shoe leather by staying at home and exercising your right not to vote. Personally, I have better things to do than committing acts of petulance. As for the latter point, if it matters so much, perhaps there should be a 'none of the above' option on the ballot paper.

Well yes, but a 'none of the above' option will never make it on to ballot papers as I think the politicians would be far too fearful that it would 'win' every time.

Obv not voting for some is an active choice, and it should remain one. But it is important to note that political decision makers generally spend little or no time thinking about what is important to those people because by not voting their actions have no impact on the political class. But some people will be happy with being in that position, and that is fine.

This is without thinking about people who are not even registered to vote, that I assume politicians spend even less time thinking about...

 

[Lost property]

No reason that I'm conscious of - I'm simply referring to her in the way that feels normal.

Thinking a bit more, I suspect it's probably because when she was Prime Minister, 'Mrs. Thatcher' (along with 'Margaret Thatcher') was how people habitually referred to her, so that's what I became used to. That doesn't seem to have happened with more recent prime ministers, who I think most people would refer to with their full name - for example, I'm used to thinking of 'Theresa May' but I'm not used to hearing 'Mrs. May'.

The best way to refer to Thatcher is by using terms that cannot be printed, well at least on here, and which many millions would regard as being normal...in her case.

 

[farleigh]

The best way to refer to Thatcher is by using terms that cannot be printed, well at least on here, and which many millions would regard as being normal...in her case.

i don't understand this sentence.

How many millons?

What are the terms you refer to?

You seem to deeply hate her or am I reading too much into it?

 

[Statto]

The Poll Tax (well Community Charge) turned most of Thatcher's supporters against her & started her downfall, (it was a totally unfair tax, which replaced the rates system) basically every person 18 & over would have to pay the charge regardless of ability to pay.

So you had a situation were family of 4 living in the same house & all over 18, would each have to pay £500 a year or whatever fee the local authority set, regardless of ability to pay, yet a billionaire owning a £10 million mansion in the same council area would pay £500 too, another example,

 

[Djgr]

i don't understand this sentence.

How many millons?

What are the terms you refer to?

You seem to deeply hate her or am I reading too much into it?

Being around at the time, I absolutely understand this sentence.

 

[Lost property]

i don't understand this sentence.

How many millons?

What are the terms you refer to?

You seem to deeply hate her or am I reading too much into it?

Difficult to decide if your response is (a) a wind up (b) an attempt at humour...which is lacking on here (c) you've led a very sheltered life and only been in contact with / environments where polite conversation is used, in contrast to more basic Anglo Saxon terms elsewhere and which feature in conversation as a matter of course.

To help you, the millions refer to those who had their lives blighted / ruined / destroyed by her malicious policies, and those of her acolytes.

And yes, I do, and always will, loathe and detest her. I lived through her despotic regime. Even today, when clips of her are shown, the arrogant body language and even more arrogant inflections, I get incensed.

 

[RT4038]

To help you, the millions refer to those who had their lives blighted / ruined / destroyed by her malicious policies, and those of her acolytes.

The many millions who benefited from her policies (some of whom will have forgotten or, especially those who were not old enough to be aware, not even realised) keep quiet or criticise the bits that it has become popular to do so.

 

[Enthusiast]

The Poll Tax (well Community Charge) turned most of Thatcher's supporters against her & started her downfall, (it was a totally unfair tax, which replaced the rates system) basically every person 18 & over would have to pay the charge regardless of ability to pay.

So you had a situation were family of 4 living in the same house & all over 18, would each have to pay £500 a year or whatever fee the local authority set, regardless of ability to pay, yet a billionaire owning a £10 million mansion in the same council area would pay £500 too, another example,

None of the schemes to bring revenue to Local Authorities were or are fair insofar as none of them are based on the ability to pay. The "Rates" scheme which the Community Charge replaced, was based solely on some hypothetical value of the property and made no adjustments for the income of the household (leaving aside benefits in the form of Council Tax rebates for those with an extremely low income). The present Council Tax scheme is almost identical in that respect. Currently a property occupied by a couple with two adult children living with them and all working is charged the same as a retired couple living in an identical house next door and who survive on small pensions. Similarly a couple with two adult children living at home but not in work also pay the same. The Community Charge at least sought to address some of that imbalance by charging the tax per capita.

The argument about those living in "£10m mansions" is just as relevant to the rates and Council Tax schemes because the top band is capped. Band G covers properties from £160k to £320k (1991 values) whereas Band H is everything above £320k. Yet in my local authority those in Band G properties (valued at perhaps £250k) pay £3,050 whilst those in Band H (perhaps in a property worth £10m) pay £3,600. Both those systems are inherently unfair because they assume that a person living in a more expensive property necessarily has an ability to pay more, which of course is ridiculous. You might argue that the owner of the £10m property who may not be able to afford his Council Tax should sell it and move to a property in a lower band. That is not an argument I would support.

There is far less justification for basing a Local Authority tax on property values than there is for basing it on the number of occupants. If the Council Tax scheme had made provision for non-working adults in a household to be excused payment, would that have been more satisfactory in your eyes? I think perhaps that was one area which was overlooked by Mrs T and her advisors.

 

[GardenRail]

I do hope there are no Thatcher haters on this thread, that lived, or live in an ex-council owned property. That'd be ironic, wouldn't it. Quite a few of those types in my area.

The many millions who benefited from her policies (some of whom will have forgotten or, especially those who were not old enough to be aware, not even realised) keep quiet or criticise the bits that it has become popular to do so.

Like purchasing their council house.... and becoming home owners, without which they'd still not own a house.

 

[farleigh]

Difficult to decide if your response is (a) a wind up (b) an attempt at humour...which is lacking on here (c) you've led a very sheltered life and only been in contact with / environments where polite conversation is used, in contrast to more basic Anglo Saxon terms elsewhere and which feature in conversation as a matter of course.

To help you, the millions refer to those who had their lives blighted / ruined / destroyed by her malicious policies, and those of her acolytes.

And yes, I do, and always will, loathe and detest her. I lived through her despotic regime. Even today, when clips of her are shown, the arrogant body language and even more arrogant inflections, I get incensed.

None of the above really.

I do prefer polite conversation rather than hatred and loathing but each to their own.

Do you feel the same about Tony Blair for all of the lives that he affected?

 

[WesternLancer]

I do hope there are no Thatcher haters on this thread, that lived, or live in an ex-council owned property. That'd be ironic, wouldn't it. Quite a few of those types in my area.

Do you mean people who if the council had still owned the house might have been allocated it and pay c£150 rent but now have to rent the house off a private landlord on the open market who charges c£300 a week?

Quite a few ex council houses owned by private landlords in my area, charging rip off rents for properties they bought years ago off former rt to buy purchasers (or their relatives after deaths of the original buyers).

 

[The exile]

The official encouragement to pursue self-interest above everything else.

 

[joebassman]

I do hope there are no Thatcher haters on this thread, that lived, or live in an ex-council owned property. That'd be ironic, wouldn't it. Quite a few of those types in my area.


Like purchasing their council house.... and becoming home owners, without which they'd still not own a house.

Is this not a little self absorbed view from people?

I'm alright because I got to purchase a council house, but screw all the people who went through untold amounts of suffering because of some of Thatcher's policies?

 

[Gloster]

Something that I think has not been mentioned, but which we are increasingly seeing the results of, is the way she took battle against the teachers. Now it can be argued that teachers were a bit too militant, but she, her government and their supporters waged a long-term campaign of denigration against them. The children would be surrounded by criticism of a group of people who were, in most cases, the first people in authority that they encountered outside the home. Even if their parents did not buy into the campaign, many children would end up with a life-long lack of respect for teachers, a lack which they passed on to their children, who are either the children (or youth) of today or the parents of today’s children. And this lack of respect extends to just about anybody in authority. We reap the benefits of Thatcher’s actions by the well-behaved and obedient young of today.

And before anybody under thirty explodes: I am not saying that all the young of today are all completely feral, merely that her actions have caused a relatively minor problem to grow far more in this country than most other countries.

 

[JamesT]

Something that I think has not been mentioned, but which we are increasingly seeing the results of, is the way she took battle against the teachers. Now it can be argued that teachers were a bit too militant, but she, her government and their supporters waged a long-term campaign of denigration against them. The children would be surrounded by criticism of a group of people who were, in most cases, the first people in authority that they encountered outside the home. Even if their parents did not buy into the campaign, many children would end up with a life-long lack of respect for teachers, a lack which they passed on to their children, who are either the children (or youth) of today or the parents of today’s children. And this lack of respect extends to just about anybody in authority. We reap the benefits of Thatcher’s actions by the well-behaved and obedient young of today.

And before anybody under thirty explodes: I am not saying that all the young of today are all completely feral, merely that her actions have caused a relatively minor problem to grow far more in this country than most other countries.

There is this perception that it's all worse here, but is it actually the case?

Where do teachers get the most respect?

An international study looks at where teachers are held in the highest public esteem.

www.bbc.co.uk

The UK is in the upper half of the rankings of 35 countries, with the teaching profession held in higher regard than in the United States, France and Germany.

Infamously before Covid it was felt that a lockdown couldn't happen as the population wouldn't obey, but as it turned out the vast majority of people complied.

 

[RT4038]

Is this not a little self absorbed view from people?

I'm alright because I got to purchase a council house, but screw all the people who went through untold amounts of suffering because of some of Thatcher's policies?

There is looking after one's self interest and there is looking after everybody else. There will always be a debate as to where the line is between the two. Margaret Thatcher reset that line in a different place to where it had been. Some will say that it was about time to reverse the trend of the previous 30 years or so of increasingly looking after everybody else. Others, particularly those adversely affected, will not agree.

Lots of people voted for Margaret Thatcher, three times. Inevitably lots of people didn't like some of her policies, and some people not liking most of them. However, I suspect rather a lot of people liked some of her policies, or even if they didn't, knew that the medicine was sorely needed. It would be impossible to achieve a paradigm shift of such magnitude without upsetting most of the people on at least something or other.

 

[Lost property]

None of the above really.

I do prefer polite conversation rather than hatred and loathing but each to their own.

Do you feel the same about Tony Blair for all of the lives that he affected?

Oddly enough, I prefer polite conversation, but, not to the extent of meekly agreeing with the majority / loudest voices etc. Once you start acquiescing then you lose your independence and simply become a Uriah Heep personality, probably content with a boring life and boring occupation.

As for Blair, well I did protest, along with numerous others, when he decided to involve the UK in a needless conflict in the M.E. but, overall, his policies benefitted the UK population, not those who were termed "one of us " .

Given the varied responses on here, I would have thought you would have ascertained why Thatcher was so despised and will always remain so.

 

[75A]

The Poll Tax (well Community Charge) turned most of Thatcher's supporters against her & started her downfall, (it was a totally unfair tax, which replaced the rates system) basically every person 18 & over would have to pay the charge regardless of ability to pay.

So you had a situation were family of 4 living in the same house & all over 18, would each have to pay £500 a year or whatever fee the local authority set, regardless of ability to pay, yet a billionaire owning a £10 million mansion in the same council area would pay

There is looking after one's self interest and there is looking after everybody else. There will always be a debate as to where the line is between the two. Margaret Thatcher reset that line in a different place to where it had been. Some will say that it was about time to reverse the trend of the previous 30 years or so of increasingly looking after everybody else. Others, particularly those adversely affected, will not agree.

Lots of people voted for Margaret Thatcher, three times. Inevitably lots of people didn't like some of her policies, and some people not liking most of them. However, I suspect rather a lot of people liked some of her policies, or even if they didn't, knew that the medicine was sorely needed. It would be impossible to achieve a paradigm shift of such magnitude without upsetting most of the people on at least something or other.

My thoughts entirely.

 

[TrainGeekUK]

I can’t imagine what life would be like today if Mrs Thatcher was in power…..

I guess Brexit would have been a non starter, Rees-Mogg and his bunch of cronies would have been booted out a long time ago, and possibly the NHS going private full time?

 

[nw1]

I can’t imagine what life would be like today if Mrs Thatcher was in power…..

I guess Brexit would have been a non starter, Rees-Mogg and his bunch of cronies would have been booted out a long time ago, and possibly the NHS going private full time?

I suspect any proposal to make the NHS go private would have seen Thatcher forced out quickly, given that the poll tax did the job in actuality.

 

[TrainGeekUK]

I can’t imagine what life would be like today if Mrs Thatcher was in power…..

I guess Brexit would have been a non starter, Rees-Mogg and his bunch of cronies would have been booted out a long time ago, and possibly the NHS going private full time?

The poll tax… a ghastly incarnation of Mrs Thatcher.

Plenty other policies she introduced were controversial, but none more so than the poll tax.

 

[Enthusiast]

Plenty other policies she introduced were controversial, but none more so than the poll tax.

How much more controversial was it than the current system of Council Tax? What disadvantages did it hold that saw it vilified, whilst Council Tax is acceptable?