What is the maximum number of container 20 foot equivalent units that can be carried by a 750 metre maximum length freight service?

[mwmbwls]

Also how long does the loading/unloading road have to be at a container terminal?

 

[66701GBRF]

Trains can be split over multiple lines in terminals. 750m equates to about 35 standard wagons plus loco. So in theory you could have a maximum 105 20ft containers. However in reality it depends on weights and type of wagons.

 

[ruaival]

Trains can be split over multiple lines in terminals. 750m equates to about 35 standard wagons plus loco. So in theory you could have a maximum 105 20ft containers. However in reality it depends on weights and type of wagons.

Am I correct in thinking then that one container flat rail wagon is 1.5 FFE (forty foot equivalent) and can take up to 3 twenty foot ?

Road wagon is usually 1 FFE or 2 twenty foot if I recall.

 

[66701GBRF]

Am I correct in thinking then that one container flat rail wagon is 1.5 FFE (forty foot equivalent) and can take up to 3 twenty foot ?

Road wagon is usually 1 FFE or 2 twenty foot if I recall.

With a standard container flat yes. You can have slightly shorter platforms that can take 2x20, 1x40 or 1x45 such as IKA mega-frets but these are at the cost of wasted dead space on most runs.

 

[Freightdude]

Hello,
If you look on Freightliner uk Web page, under the "our fleet" page this gives you a list of current container wagons. It gives thier potential loading parameters, and maximum loading weight.

When talking 20ft standard containers it is the weight that can be the limiting factor:

A std 20ft container max load is circa 28 tonne. Most intermoadal wagons have a maximum load of 60 tonnes give or take. So if all 20ft containers are fully loaded you could only get two per 60ft deck.

In reality the mixed weight of containers regularly means this is seldom the case.

Hope this helps a little, though I have a feeling I may have confused things.

 

[etr221]

From that page, the FFA-G wagon will carry 4 TEU (20 footers), total 106 t, per 27.758 m pair - 26 pairs are 722m, for 104 TEU (or 52 FEU), 2756t.
This is for 26.5t gross TEU containers: I believe max gross for a TEU (or a 40 foot FEU) is 40t, but with containers that heavy you are likely to be hitting limits somewhere along the line...

 

[dk1]

Isn’t it 775m?

 

[TSG]

Isn’t it 775m?

Yes, that's usually the length that's designed around. Take the loco off and I guess you have about 750m of actual wagons though

 

[The Planner]

From that page, the FFA-G wagon will carry 4 TEU (20 footers), total 106 t, per 27.758 m pair - 26 pairs are 722m, for 104 TEU (or 52 FEU), 2756t.
This is for 26.5t gross TEU containers: I believe max gross for a TEU (or a 40 foot FEU) is 40t, but with containers that heavy you are likely to be hitting limits somewhere along the line...

You wouldnt get close to 2756t. There isnt anything timed greater than 1800t for an Intermodal.

 

[etr221]

You wouldnt get close to 2756t. There isnt anything timed greater than 1800t for an Intermodal.

That 2756t was weight of containers: gross comes to 3718t

Which shows that, as you head to maximum limits, which one you hit - and what the implications are - will vary...

 

[Ploughman]

Is haulage limit also affected by the route gradient profile?
When I used to submit Ballast train requests, we were limited on some routes as to what haulage type we could use.
Generally this was the replacement of the initially requested 37 by a 56.
In other cases if the load got passed, you then had to combat the length limit.
Leeds - Bradford - Halifax was a particular bugbear route.

 

[The Planner]

Is haulage limit also affected by the route gradient profile?
When I used to submit Ballast train requests, we were limited on some routes as to what haulage type we could use.
Generally this was the replacement of the initially requested 37 by a 56.
In other cases if the load got passed, you then had to combat the length limit.
Leeds - Bradford - Halifax was a particular bugbear route.

You are limited as to what the loads books say, unless you are double heading, top n tail or banked.

 

[mwmbwls]

Just a quick note of thanks to all the above contributors.It proves yet again the aphorism that "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong."

 

[swt_passenger]

Just a quick note of thanks to all the above contributors.It proves yet again the aphorism that "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong."

A point not mentioned yet is that on the routes from Southampton there just aren’t enough 20ft containers being circulated around, to completely fill a train of full length 60ft flats you‘d need equal numbers of both sizes, and the shipping companies aren’t really moving enough 20ft containers nowadays.

Are 60ft flats still the optimum length?

 

[tiptoptaff]

A point not mentioned yet is that on the routes from Southampton there just aren’t enough 20ft containers being circulated around, to completely fill a train of full length 60ft flats you‘d need equal numbers of both sizes, and the shipping companies aren’t really moving enough 20ft containers nowadays.

Are 60ft flats still the optimum length?

Not any more. Which is why GBRf, FL and DB all invested in the 40ft-bed Ecofret (FWA) wagons. Much less unused wagon space over the length of a train so in theory, more containers to be carried. Greater flexibility as they give you the ability to carry an extra 40ft box per wagon swap. FEA twins are 120ft long, and can hold 2 40ft boxes. FWA triples are 120ft, but hold 3 40ft boxes. The FWA pairs only hold 2 40ft boxes, but are 40ft shorter than FEA twins.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not any more. Which is why GBRf, FL and DB all invested in the 40ft-bed Ecofret (FWA) wagons. Much less unused wagon space over the length of a train so in theory, more containers to be carried. Greater flexibility as they give you the ability to carry an extra 40ft box per wagon swap. FEA twins are 120ft long, and can hold 2 40ft boxes. FWA triples are 120ft, but hold 3 40ft boxes. The FWA pairs only hold 2 40ft boxes, but are 40ft shorter than FEA twins.

Thanks for the detail, I guess any 45ft containers are still a problem for them? So the whole train might still have a few 60ft flats to deal with a small minority of containers?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thanks for the detail, I guess any 45ft containers are still a problem for them? So the whole train might still have a few 60ft flats to deal with a small minority of containers?

The pocket wagons are 45ft, so they can accommodate them, but their main purpose is for the Hi-Cube type.

There will be a number of 60ft decks for 45ft boxes. But even on ships, the 40ft boxes are the most common by a long way. 45ft boxes aren't that common overall.

The trains of 45ft Russell/Tesco boxes on Megafret wagons tend to be a majority purely domestic flow

 

[66701GBRF]

Not any more. Which is why GBRf, FL and DB all invested in the 40ft-bed Ecofret (FWA) wagons.

But GB has also invested in a lot of new 60ft FEA-G wagons. With regards the triple FWA sets, both versions have been more problematic than they are worth.

 

[tiptoptaff]

But GB has also invested in a lot of new 60ft FEA-G wagons. With regards the triple FWA sets, both versions have been more problematic than they are worth.

Interesting - I'd always been told that 40ft decks were the way forward, due to the usual wasted space on a 60ft deck