What is this CrossCountry service?

[Halish Railway]

What is the purpose of these two services, the first one which is carrying passengers and the other which is an empty coaching stock movement?

1Z02 1329 York to Birmingham New Street

Realtime Trains | 1Z02 1329 York to Birmingham New Street | 23/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 1Z02 1329 departure from York to Birmingham New Street on 23/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And

5Z02 1657 Birmingham New Street to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D.

Realtime Trains | 5Z02 1657 Birmingham New Street to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D. | 23/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z02 1657 departure from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Barton Hill W.R.D. on 23/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Julia]

Not sure it would carry that many passengers , given that it sits at Hemsworth for 20 minutes to let 1V60 overtake...

 

[Halish Railway]

Not sure it would carry that many passengers , given that it sits at Hemsworth for 20 minutes to let 1V60 overtake...

It might not be for regular Joe Public but for various dignitaries - There must be some passengers onboard if it has a 1 headcode as far as Birmingham New Street, only turning into a 5 headcode afterwards.

 

[43055]

Seems to have come off 1Z01 which has come from Bristol. Seems to be in the system for Friday as well.

Realtime Trains | 1Z01 0855 Bristol Temple Meads to York | 23/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 1Z01 0855 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to York on 23/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[hello]

Seems to have come off 1Z01 which has come from Bristol. Seems to be in the system for Friday as well.

Realtime Trains | 1Z01 0855 Bristol Temple Meads to York | 23/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 1Z01 0855 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to York on 23/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Has been there all week

 

[Merle Haggard]

The Up Avanti W.C. double Voyagers from New St are shown as two trains, one 1xxx and one 5xxx and I've been told that the reason is connected to reservations. Could this be for the same reason?

 

[class 9]

Just looked on our system, it was Driver only, so possibly a test run or Driver training.

 

[jfollows]

There was 1Z01 09:58 Bristol-Manchester with 220030 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K31645/2022-03-21/detailed) and 1Z02 14:58 Manchester-Bristol (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K31646/2022-03-21/detailed#allox_id=0) on Monday 21 March, presumably similar reasons.

 

[Efini92]

Probably has managers on it training to do guard duties.

 

[SargeNpton]

Class 1 trains do not necessarily carry passengers (nor do Class 2 or 9). Test trains and route learners are often allocated as class 1/2/9 if they need to be timed at what would be the normal speeds for the trains they are emulating.

An additional field in the train schedule indicates whether or not it's an advertised service - but that field is perhaps not shown in the RTT display.

 

[Horizon22]

Class 1 trains do not necessarily carry passengers (nor do Class 2 or 9). Test trains and route learners are often allocated as class 1/2/9 if they need to be timed at what would be the normal speeds for the trains they are emulating.

An additional field in the train schedule indicates whether or not it's an advertised service - but that field is perhaps not shown in the RTT display.

You might expect a class 3 though for ECS moves.

 

[jfollows]

An additional field in the train schedule indicates whether or not it's an advertised service - but that field is perhaps not shown in the RTT display.

RTT sometimes shows "Unadvertised Express", such as for the 1T40/1T42 workings a week ago Manchester-London, whereas these XC 1Zxx workings show as "Express Passenger" in the same place.

 

[SargeNpton]

You might expect a class 3 though for ECS moves.

5 is the normal indicator for ECS, 3 is used for specially authorised moves.

 

[Horizon22]

5 is the normal indicator for ECS, 3 is used for specially authorised moves.

Yes, as these likely are.

 

[Starmill]

Staff who haven't yet passed their PTS course might not be permitted to travel on 3xxx and 5xxx services.

 

[800001]

5 is the normal indicator for ECS, 3 is used for specially authorised moves.

Class 3 is used extremely frequently for ecs move each and every day.
Look at Kings Cross, Doncaster and Leeds for lner, daily booked class 3 ecs moves.

 

[Carlisle]

Staff who haven't yet passed their PTS course might not be permitted to travel on 3xxx and 5xxx services.

I understand various types of staff travel occasionally on certain ECS services, I don’t think they require a PTS .

 

[Efini92]

I understand various staff grades travel on certain ECS services, I don’t think they require a PTS .

They do if it’s DOO. If there’s a guard they can.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Class 3 is used extremely frequently for ecs move each and every day.
Look at Kings Cross, Doncaster and Leeds for lner, daily booked class 3 ecs moves.

Class 3 is for high priority ECS moves, for example a long distance empty from depot to form a passenger service that would be delayed if the move was regulated for other services. (I.e. don’t regulate this ECS for passenger trains.) Also used for parcels trains and certain test trains I believe?

 

[800001]

Class 3 is for high priority ECS moves, for example a long distance empty from depot to form a passenger service that would be delayed if the move was regulated for other services. (I.e. don’t regulate this ECS for passenger trains.) Also used for parcels trains and certain test trains I believe?

I am fully aware of what a class 3 is, but they are used for short distance as well, eg Neville Hill to Skipton, Harrogate and Bradford. Doncaster to Leeds, Kings Cross to Kings Cross via Bowes park etc, some of these

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I am fully aware of what a class 3 is, but they are used for short distance as well, eg Neville Hill to Skipton, Harrogate and Bradford. Doncaster to Leeds, Kings Cross to Kings Cross via Bowes park etc, some of these

The short distance moves will also be class 3 because of some time constraint, for example traincrew hours etc.

 

[Falcon1200]

IMHO the reason LNER use Class 3 for ECS moves is because, historically, the ECML passenger operator has always thought themselves superior to others, therefore their ECS trains are more important.....

 

[800001]

IMHO the reason LNER use Class 3 for ECS moves is because, historically, the ECML passenger operator has always thought themselves superior to others, therefore their ECS trains are more important.....

Totally incorrect.
The reason class 3 is used for LNER is as follows:

Class 5 used for eg Doncaster IEP to Doncaster station, if ecs goes past station to say Hull or Leeds it is a class 3.

Same at Leeds, Neville Hill to Leeds is class 5, if it passes the station to Harrogate, skipton, Bradford it is a class 3.

In London, class 3 is used for Kings Cross to Kings cross via Bowes park where a set is shunting to free up a platform, but is required back there usually within an hour.

Nothing what so ever to do with ‘feeling of superiority’.

 

[Carlisle]

They do if it’s DOO. If there’s a guard they can.

Ok thanks for the clarification

 

[Cowley]

I think this question has been answered. Thanks everyone.