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What might a Boxing Day Service look like?

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Anon Mouse

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Personally I like the guaranteed days off of Xmas Day and Boxing day, but lets not get into the rights/wrongs etc.

In Tyne & Wear the buses run a skeleton service which is not too bad on the main routes (ie Coast Road corridor, 2 buses per hour) and this year the Metro seemed to run a intensive service (but with late start and early finish). The problme is, the service is not as popular as it should be as people don't think buses/metro runs and even when it does run the operator or number is different so people who see the bus wont get on it as its 'different'. I suspect the same would happen if trains ran on Boxing Day as people would percive the transport as not being on.

I once travelled by train on Christmas Day a couple of years back, it was almost full and standing and it had a full catering service onboad........in China! Good for novelty value and a good bit of haulage from Pengshan to Chengdu Nan!
 
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tbtc

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It should happen, but it won't happen (both for reasons that I won't go into here to avoid dragging this thread into the territory of other threads).

If it were to happen then I'd suggest the Sunday template as a starting point - with a focus on direct trains to stations like Metro Centre and Meadowhall that see (tens of) thousands of visitors on that day and services to/from various Airports (which similarly are busy at that time of year).

I don't think that many local stations would be viable, but some kind of semi-fast service on a lot of lines could see trains looking fairly busy - look at how travel on Sundays has improved over the past couple of decades and now many lines have as good as service on the "Sabbath" as they do on a weekday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In Tyne & Wear the buses run a skeleton service which is not too bad on the main routes (ie Coast Road corridor, 2 buses per hour) and this year the Metro seemed to run a intensive service (but with late start and early finish). The problme is, the service is not as popular as it should be as people don't think buses/metro runs and even when it does run the operator or number is different so people who see the bus wont get on it as its 'different'. I suspect the same would happen if trains ran on Boxing Day as people would percive the transport as not being on

I was in Newcastle on Boxing Day (along with thousands of other shoppers) - one of the sales staff in a shop was complaining to her colleague that the Metro was "only" every half hour, so she'd had to wait a lot longer than normal - the idae that Boxing Day wouldn't see a full service seemed to have caught her by surprise.

I think that with a little publicity, people would start to expect train services to run.
 

Anon Mouse

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The Bicester shuttle very nearly happened in 2011. Wont be a loco though.

With a 168 you can work DOO. You could run an hourly shuttle for most of the day with half a dozen drivers and one signal box open. No need to open the line north of Aynho. No need to open the signal boxes at Banbury. No need to ferry in a guard from Banbury, Birmingham (or Stourbridge) to work on the loco hauled rake.

I don't like that, even for one day I can't see the Unions agreeing to DOO like that....where could it lead to? Evenings & Sundays being DOO? If it runs on a route where there is normally a Guard then it should run. Also DOO can only be brought in if the stations are fitted with mirrors, CCTV screens etc....not a starter ans if it was I am sure the RMT & ASLEF will (I would hope) fight it all the way. Run a train with the appropiate staff or no service at all!
 

455driver

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It can look like anything it wants, I wont be working.

I am not religious but its a special time for family especially with 2 young children.

If anyone wants to work then carry on but we know it will be volunteers for a few years and then the screws will be turned and it will end up on the roster like every other day of the year, you want trains on Boxing day then you can drive them!
 

DarloRich

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My view would be that the service doesn’t need to run. Can’t we have one day in the year where people do not worship at the temple of Mammon! Plus large sections of the network are being worked on over the Christmas period meaning that any service could be badly disrupted.

If a service is required (and I am assuming that staff could be found/incentivised to work) I would suggest a slimmed down service only operating on the main lines. The problem starts in working out who gets a service and who doesn’t. I would limit it to main trunk routes only plus those routes that serve airports and places of interest such as sporting/racing venues and shopping palaces.

So taking the WCML as an example, where do you run services to? Bear in mind these suggestions are wide brush strokes and that I have no knowledge of the costs incurred or staff or unit diagrams involved In running these proposed services. I am also trying to keep the types of unit to a minimum. I am assuming there is no disruptive engineering works. I would suggest a service pattern that gives a first arrival time in London of 0930 and a last departure of 1930. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Starting with LM I would suggest that they run an hourly all stations service from Euston to Birmingham via Northampton. I would suggest omitting stations like Cheddington and Long Buckby as I doubt there would be many passengers. There would be no branch line services or terminating trains anywhere other than Birmingham. IF LO/LU were running I would not make a station call before Watford Junction. In an ideal world I would make all trains 12 car as I doubt it makes much difference to run them at full capacity as opposed to 4 cars. That way if there is a rush or a heavy loading you don’t get caught out and generate any bad PR. However if it is more expensive to run as 12 cars and demand forecasting suggest it would be overkill I would simply run the services as 4 car train to minimise costs.

Turning to Virgin services. What kind of service would be needed? Can you run a Euston – Glasgow service and not loose money? I would be tempted to let LM handle all passengers on the Birmingham route. It would be slower but reduces the number of trains in use and crews needed to man services. I would not run trains along the north Wales coast. I am treating this line as a “branch” line rather than a core service. It also means that Voyagers are not needed. That would leave Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow services to cover. I would run a train to each location once every other hour trying to make sure they connected with any local services that were running and the LM intermediate services.

Would it be more sensible to run a Birmingham – Glasgow service to allow anyone needing a long distance route to connect with the LM train? I know it would take for ever but you have to pay the price for running a service on a public holiday. Again the aim is to keep the costs down and reduce crewing requirements. This service could sweep up the Crewe – London trade but that would leave Liverpool on a limb. Therefore, I would suggest running Virgin services from Liverpool and Manchester to London. Manchester trains would call at Stockport, Maccelsfield and Stoke and Milton Keynes. Liverpool trains would call at Crewe, Stafford, Tamworth, Nuneaton & Rugby. The Milton Keynes & Rugby services to allow connections to intermediate stations both north and south on the Birmingham route by LM. The Anglo Scottish services would call at Wolverhampton, Crewe, Warrington, Wigan, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme ( The Lake District), Penrith (The North Lakes), Carlisle, Motherwell and Glasgow.

That is a first stab at a service pattern on which I would appreciate comments. I have not included any local services because I think the business case to run such services would be limited unless they were to connect with the trunk services to cover a specific demand. However if you start any services on boxing day you may as well run a full Sunday service as everywhere will want a service because of a, perhaps, perceived demand.
 

noddingdonkey

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I think the service should look slightly different every year, taking into account the full football programme and trying to make sure there's a reasonable option for away fans.
 

Anon Mouse

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I think the service should look slightly different every year, taking into account the full football programme and trying to make sure there's a reasonable option for away fans.

As the only people who would really be travelling in any number will be football fans could Footex's run dependent on where the matches are being played and with some funding coming from the Football Clubs, Premier League, FA etc?
 

43074

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An East Midlands Trains Boxing Day service I would plan like this:


Hourly Sheffield to St Pancras calling at Chesterfield, Derby, Long Eaton, East Midlands Parkway, Leicester, Kettering & London St Pancras plus;

an hourly connection from Nottingham to Leicester calling at Beeston, Loughborough and Leicester as well as;

a connecting service from Corby at Kettering, that would continue to St Pancras calling at Welingborough, Bedford, Luton or Luton Airport Parkway (alternating every 2 hours) & London St Pancras
 

Cherry_Picker

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I don't like that, even for one day I can't see the Unions agreeing to DOO like that....where could it lead to? Evenings & Sundays being DOO? If it runs on a route where there is normally a Guard then it should run. Also DOO can only be brought in if the stations are fitted with mirrors, CCTV screens etc....not a starter ans if it was I am sure the RMT & ASLEF will (I would hope) fight it all the way. Run a train with the appropiate staff or no service at all!

Trains have been DOO between Marylebone and Banbury (and therefore Bicester) for twenty years.
 

Anon Mouse

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Trains have been DOO between Marylebone and Banbury (and therefore Bicester) for twenty years.

I never realised that, it seemed that by the original post it was a proposal to run DOO on a non-DOO route, apologies for having a bout of BobCrowitis!
 

Cherry_Picker

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A 67 hauled rake will need a guard on board, which is what prompted my comment about a DMU being the likely traction used for the service because it can run DOO over the entire area Marylebone signal box controls.
If a Boxing Day service did happen in that part of the world then Bicester is a perfect place to run to and from; it's about a hour's run if you use a semi fast stopping pattern, there is facility to turn back at the station, you have people travelling in good numbers in both directions because of the hugely popular retail outlet at Bicester and because London is, well, London.
On top of all that you can run an hourly shuttle service with so few staff (one signal box covers entire route, DOO trains) it would be relatively easy to get the number of people you need to volunteer for it. I genuinely think we will see it happen within five years. If not that then Marylebone - Oxford once it is open.
 

GNER 91128

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For Greater Anglia on the West Anglia side:

Hourly Liverpool Street - Enfield Town all stations via Seven Sisters
Hourly Liverpool Street - Cambridge calling at Seven Sisters, Edmonton Green, Southbury loop stations, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Harlow Town and all stations. Possibly supplemented by an hourly faster variant via Tottenham Hale, as LST - Cambridge would be take 90+ minutes on this service.
Half hourly to Stansted Airport calling at Tottenham Hale, alternate Broxbourne/Harlow and same trains alternate Bishops Stortford/S Mountfitchet.
Hourly Liverpool Street - Chingford calling at Hackney Downs and all stations.
Hourly 0900-1900 Stratford - Herford East calling Tottenham Hale, Ponders End and all stations.

c2c:

Hourly Fenchurch - Shoebury all stations via Laindon.
Hourly Fenchurch - Southend Central via Chafford Hundred and Grays. Possibly enhanced service for Lakeside traffic during the day.
Hourly Barking - Grays shuttle via Purfleet.

First Capital Connect, Great Northern side:

Hourly King's Cross - Welwyn all stations via New Barnet
Hourly King's Cross - Stevenage via Hertford North
Hourly King's Cross - Peterborough calling Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn and all stations.
Hourly King's Cross - Cambridge calling Finsbury Park, Stevenage and all stations. Possibly two-hourly onto Ely.

You forgot the hourly King's Cross - Peterborough calling at Finsbury Par, Stevenage, Hitchin, Arlesey, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Huntingdon train.
 

6Gman

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It can look like anything it wants, I wont be working.

I am not religious but its a special time for family especially with 2 young children.

If anyone wants to work then carry on but we know it will be volunteers for a few years and then the screws will be turned and it will end up on the roster like every other day of the year, you want trains on Boxing day then you can drive them!

Just a reminder that in starting this thread I did make the point that it was to discuss what a Boxing Day service might look like, not to discuss the rights and wrongs of voluntary/mandatory staff working on that day.

:)
 

DarloRich

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regardless of my views on the subject i tried to treat it as what my friend in the army calls a staff college question and build an answer to the scenario
 

Andyjs247

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A 67 hauled rake will need a guard on board, which is what prompted my comment about a DMU being the likely traction used for the service because it can run DOO over the entire area Marylebone signal box controls.
If a Boxing Day service did happen in that part of the world then Bicester is a perfect place to run to and from; it's about a hour's run if you use a semi fast stopping pattern, there is facility to turn back at the station, you have people travelling in good numbers in both directions because of the hugely popular retail outlet at Bicester and because London is, well, London.
On top of all that you can run an hourly shuttle service with so few staff (one signal box covers entire route, DOO trains) it would be relatively easy to get the number of people you need to volunteer for it. I genuinely think we will see it happen within five years. If not that then Marylebone - Oxford once it is open.

Are all Chiltern's DMU services DOO? I think there's no large mirrors like you see on some routes that are DOO.

I was thinking that a Boxing Day service would preferably run to Bicester Town (so it would have to wait until after the chord opens) but you could run to Bicester North from Marylebone and bus people across town as they do now. On Boxing Day the bus might have got stuck in traffic though! :(

Or you could run something from Oxford to Bicester Town (which would be OK, but not as useful as a service from London). Post Evergreen 3 you could still turn back at Bicester Town or at Water Eaton (if for example there was engineering work at Oxford). I believe the whole route is going to be under Marylebone IECC so it will be a fairly self contained operation. And come 2015, as the whole route will have recently been rebuilt, there shouldn't be much need to do engineering works for a few years.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Are all Chiltern's DMU services DOO? I think there's no large mirrors like you see on some routes that are DOO.

South of Banbury, yes, but with a couple of exceptions. If the 121 runs between Aylesbury and Princes Risborough then it needs a guard on board as does the daily service to Paddington but everything else is DOO.
Trains starting in the Midlands (Birmingham, Stratford, Kidderminster etc) will become DOO when they reach Banbury unless they are a locomotive hauled rake. DOO equipment is fitted at stations, but not everywhere uses mirrors. There are CCTV monitors at certain stations and other stations are look back stations.
 
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