What stock could Grand Union use for Cardiff to London?

[Energy]

Moderator note: Split from

Grand Union tries again for Cardiff to London open access

Grand union have put a fresh application to run 5 trains per day between Cardiff central and London Paddington starting May 2023 being extended to Carmarthen in 2025 with new bi-mode rolling stock. Sorry I can’t find the link I had to the application

www.railforums.co.uk

Would be a good route for battery trains, Trainline makes the distance as 55 miles roughly each way between Carmarthen and Cardiff Central, 110 miles on battery is achievable, Stadler managed 140 miles on a FLIRT in freezing conditions.

Might be pushing the range a little though and they probably want 802s as the lease will be cheaper since they can go with another operator if Grand Union fails.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I think 9-car 802's personally - the GWML is well used, no doubt it'll reduce overcrowding between Carmarthen and Cardiff Central too.

I say 9 cars given the plan for Standard, Standard Premium and First Class.

 

[Fyldeboy]

Battery Trains, environmentally friendly = good.

However, Carmarthen-Cardiff would require an additional separate OA application, risk missed connections and be less attractive to the travelling public than direct W-Wales - London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost guaranteed to be 80x of some kind.

 

[Energy]

Battery Trains, environmentally friendly = good.

However, Carmarthen-Cardiff would require an additional separate OA application, risk missed connections and be less attractive to the travelling public than direct W-Wales - London.

In their proposal they have London to Cardiff extended to Carmarthen in 2025.

 

[RailWonderer]

Unlikely but speaking as an enthusiast: A 9 car 397 or a 125mph bi-mode Aventra. Most likely an IET with Lumo/Avanti refurb seats in standard.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Unlikely but speaking as an enthusiast: A 9 car 397 or a 125mph bi-mode Aventra. Most likely an IET with Lumo/Avanti refurb seats in standard.

I think an Aventra sounds quite unlikely - the SWR 701's aren't in service yet. If it was me, I'd be going for 9-car bi-mode 802's.

 

[Kite159]

I think 9-car 802's personally - the GWML is well used, no doubt it'll reduce overcrowding between Carmarthen and Cardiff Central too.

I say 9 cars given the plan for Standard, Standard Premium and First Class.

Isn't there a limit of 5 coaches at Carmarthen due to the platform lengths?

 

[daodao]

Isn't there a limit of 5 coaches at Carmarthen due to the platform lengths?

Would 5 coach bimode trains be the most suitable, running in pairs between Cardiff and London, with a single set detached at Cardiff Central and running to Carmarthen via the Swansea District line? Passengers boarding at Paddington could be directed to the appropriate portion of the train depending on their destination.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Isn't there a limit of 5 coaches at Carmarthen due to the platform lengths?

Oh flippin hell, yes - forgot about that. Hopefully those platforms can be Lengthened!

 

[JonathanH]

Would 5 coach bimode trains be the most suitable, running in pairs between Cardiff and London, with a single set detached at Cardiff Central and running to Carmarthen via the Swansea District line? Passengers boarding at Paddington could be directed to the appropriate portion of the train depending on their destination.

Is there platform capacity at Cardiff for splitting and joining? It increases the amount of time the platform is occupied. It sounds like there is a plan for particular first class offerings as well which might be best not duplicated in two places.

On the other hand, a splitting and joining plan may better match capacity and what is to say that they might only be able to fill five car trains on certain services in any case.

I note that Hull Trains, Grand Central and Lumo work around five car trains in any case. It is a bit fanciful for Wales open access to think they can fill longer trains.

 

[The Planner]

Oh flippin hell, yes - forgot about that. Hopefully those platforms can be Lengthened!

Only if they were willing to pay for it, they would soon decide to run 5 cars if it involves moving signalling about.

 

[Western 52]

Platforms at Llanelli and Pembrey and Burry Port are too short for 9 too. I know trains have SDO but at Llanelli there are also level crossings both ends of the station. Probably 5 cars will be sufficient in west Wales anyway.

 

[RobShipway]

It is most likely going to be class 8XX units being run by Grand Central, but prior to that could it be possible that Grand Central use 5 car class 221's that are possibly soon to become available?

 

[MattRat]

It is most likely going to be class 8XX units being run by Grand Central, but prior to that could it be possible that Grand Central use 5 car class 221's that are possibly soon to become available?

If you mean the Avanti ones, they are going to XC. And hopefully more 22X follow like the 222.

 

[RobShipway]

If you mean the Avanti ones, they are going to XC. And hopefully more 22X follow like the 222.

I would not be so sure that the Avanti 221's are going to XC or for that matter the EMR 222's. It is not written in stone that will happen and I believe there has been no mention in the press of either of these happening?

Just because it is logical that any class 22x will go to XC, does not mean it will happen. It would be like saying that the WMR/LNWR class 350/2 will go to SWR...........

 

[MattRat]

I would not be so sure that the Avanti 221's are going to XC or for that matter the EMR 222's. It is not written in stone that will happen and I believe there has been no mention in the press of either of these happening?

Just because it is logical that any class 22x will go to XC, does not mean it will happen. It would be like saying that the WMR/LNWR class 350/2 will go to SWR...........

The forums seem to believe they will, and they would slot right in. The 350s are different though as they'd need to be converted to third rail to fit in, if that's even possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The forums seem to believe they will, and they would slot right in. The 350s are different though as they'd need to be converted to third rail to fit in, if that's even possible.

If any 350s were going to SWR it would make more sense to do a deal involving the /1s which just need the shoes putting back on.