What was so good about GNER?

[SkinnyDave]

Travelled down to Newcastle today with East Coast then had my first and hopefully last trip back on a XC Voyager :-x
Enjoyed trip down and was wondering why a lot of people sing GNERs praises?

 

[shinkansen1966]

and was wondering why a lot of people sing GNERs praises?

The GNER restaurant car available to all passengers.

 

[Welshman]

Morale seemed to be high in the early days.
The staff seemed proud of their company and pleased to work for it.

 

[WillPS]

The GNER restaurant car available to all passengers.

How about the NXEC restaurant car available to all passengers?

 

[Clip]

The GNER restaurant car available to all passengers.

Wow. :roll:

I must be missing a trick somewhere with this whole loving a restaurant on a train. Yeah its nice to have an option of hot food at a table but really? The biggest and best thread on here is about food near stations and loads of others about using your bite card in a station and taking on a packed lunch so why the hell do you want a restaurant? At rather high prices too I may add.

 

[TGV]

It gave the impression of a good ol fashioned railway in a time of privatisation, complexity and "new thinking" that didn't always work elsewhere.

The rolling stock was well looked after compared to NatEx who followed and BR who preceded. Both aesthetically and technically. I have friends and colleagues who work or worked at BN and have some interesting stories probably best told over a pint.

But yes, like Welshman said, the staff seemed proud to be part of the company and that is a rare thing these days (not just on the railways) and one of the most valuable things one can hope from employees.

 

[Alan1310]

GNER looked good trains and staff the class 91 overhauls and mallard refurb on mk3/4 enough said I think

 

[Clip]

Morale seemed to be high in the early days.
The staff seemed proud of their company and pleased to work for it.

Or you could counter that with the staff who worked at KGX who seemed to vanish when disruption happened and leave it all to us NR staff and a smattering of WAGN staff.

Really pleased to work for their company eh?Especially when someone else can do it for you.

The only thing Garnett got right really was the whole Train presentation.

 

[gazthomas]

GNER looked good trains and staff the class 91 overhauls and mallard refurb on mk3/4 enough said I think

In my view the refurb came too late - too worried about painting outside rather than delivering Mallard earlier.

 

[sprinterguy]

In my view the refurb came too late - too worried about painting outside rather than delivering Mallard earlier.

I thought that the refurbishment that GNER gave to it's HSTs early on in the franchise was very good, and gave the trains a superb cosy ambience. The HSTs always seemed very well kept; smart and tidy. I can't say quite the same of the 225 sets, and in the last couple of years of them running around in their original condition many of them looked quite down at heel internaly, and even earlier on in the franchise their condition seemed to vary between reasonable and unkempt. It is strange to think that at the time I was making sporadic forays on the 225s in this condition they were essentially the same age as the Pendolinos are now.

GNER gave the impression of being well managed, competent and stable. Obviously, these traits unravelled at the end of their tenure on the ECML, but this had as much to do with the troubles of their parent company as it did their own performance, and they offered many years of good service before their untimely demise.

Both the staff and the trains were well presented, and presented a smart and uniform brand to the public. GNER were very quick in repainting their entire train fleet into their corporate image and splashing it across their network, and, yes, I feel that the livery really did project class and quality, and was very mature.

 

[WestCoast]

It gave the impression of a good ol fashioned railway in a time of privatisation, complexity and "new thinking" that didn't always work elsewhere.

The rolling stock was well looked after compared to NatEx who followed and BR who preceded. Both aesthetically and technically. I have friends and colleagues who work or worked at BN and have some interesting stories probably best told over a pint.

But yes, like Welshman said, the staff seemed proud to be part of the company and that is a rare thing these days (not just on the railways) and one of the most valuable things one can hope from employees.

I agree with this, if nothing else it was a very classy brand and that was/is appealing to the enthusiast community. The TOCs now are either generic or go for this "faux-cool" image (e.g XC). The wider public might not care all that much, but since this thread is about those with an interest in the railways, this is important.

Wow. :roll:

I must be missing a trick somewhere with this whole loving a restaurant on a train. Yeah its nice to have an option of hot food at a table but really? The biggest and best thread on here is about food near stations and loads of others about using your bite card in a station and taking on a packed lunch so why the hell do you want a restaurant? At rather high prices too I may add.

For some, a long-distance train journey means more than a trip from A to B with your packed lunch or meal deal from M&S. Opening the restaurant to Standard Class enabled those without a potentially extremely costly First Class ticket to access this service.

Thankfully, restaurant services (as well as proper buffets) are alive and well in other countries around the world, where train facilities are being maintained rather than being scaled back (or "enhanced" as some UK TOCs might say).

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I must be missing a trick somewhere with this whole loving a restaurant on a train. Yeah its nice to have an option of hot food at a table but really? The biggest and best thread on here is about food near stations and loads of others about using your bite card in a station and taking on a packed lunch so why the hell do you want a restaurant? At rather high prices too I may add.

Simple to answer that.
Because one has finished a long days work (including banter) at somewhere around 6pm, has to get to Kings Cross in good time for a 7pm departure, gets to Newcastle Station around 10pm, and perhaps home before 11pm.
The suggestion of having a decent, wholesome meal somewhere in the 5 hours between 6 and 11 is not to be met with "why the hell would you want a restaurant?". Its to be met with "surely this is the precise time and place to provide a restaurant to a willing, hungry, affluent, regular and appreciative market", and to do it well.
Its irrational not to offer the service.
BTW. without checking, I reckon the 'biggest' current thread in this section is about the East Coast First Class catering service. Something whose decline has impacted on me significantly - and continues to do so.
The price was entirely proprtionate to the level of service and quality of meal - all four courses with all silverware, cutlery, water, towels, options and attention to detail and customer's wishes. I possibly spend more now in some silly London-prices establishments.

 

[sheff1]

The GNER restaurant car available to all passengers.

This.

Taking dinner on the northbound Highland Chieftain, in the Highlands, encapsulated for me what civilised travel means.

The food and service quality was the same, though, on a more mundane journey from Kings Cross to Doncaster and, as long as seats were available, I do not see why Standard class passengers should be prevented from partaking .... not everyone wants cheap prepackaged food, even if they cannot afford the full First Class fare.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There was usually a second sitting for dinner (or breakfast or whatever) announced on leaving Doncaster; announced to both classes of course. It was such a regular tradition, much appreciated that it was carried over by some crews into the NatEx era, but only heard under the EC regime as often as a cuckoo.

 

[Clip]

I know its just me and I know people do enjoy them after a long hard days work but I still dont get the need or desire for a restaurant car. Im much happier with grabbing something from the buffet if I havent already grabbed something from either a BK or McD's and a 6 pack of lager. Then sleeping

 

[junglejames]

grabbed something from either a BK or McD's and a 6 pack of lager. Then sleeping

Youve explained perfectly well why you dont 'get' restaurant cars.

 

[Welshman]

I know its just me and I know people do enjoy them after a long hard days work but I still dont get the need or desire for a restaurant car. Im much happier with grabbing something from the buffet if I havent already grabbed something from either a BK or McD's and a 6 pack of lager. Then sleeping

And you can still do that!

No-one was compelled to use the restaurant car.

This thread is entitled "What was good about GNER?" and one good thing was they gave you the option.

 

[PFX]

Speaking as a former customer of GNER, I absolutely loved travelling on their services from Edinburgh to London. I travelled on the ECML numerous times when it was still Intercity, in standard class and also with GNER. Travel was comfortable enough and there wasn't a huge deal of difference in the two.

What really made it for me though, was the discovery of the 1st advance fare which opened my eyes to what rail travel could and should be like.

Comfortable and spacious seats, peace and quiet, excellent service. I never used standard class again and always made a point of using the restaurant car as an enjoyable start to my journey south. Yes, it was pricey but I always found the quality to be excellent and the experience of watching the early morning mist lift from the passing countryside, while tucking into a cooked breakfast, both enjoyable and relaxing. Even the tableware and cutlery was high quality. I suppose I was imagining re-living the halcyon days of rail travel.

End to end, the journey (for me) was comparable to flying due to transfer and check in times at airports, but was far less stressful and far more comfortable - arrive at the station, get on your train and forget about things for 4 hours. I always found staff to be friendly and helpful but, going from what I read here sometimes, I may have been an exception to the rule.

The only issues I had on the ECML were not of GNER's making. For example, the 7 hours the journey took on one occasion was due to TSRs imposed in the wake of the Hatfield crash. Even with that and the obvious displeasure it caused among some customers, staff remained professional and pleasant throughout.

 

[northwichcat]

I imagine some passengers would have liked the retention of the smoking carriage.

GNER also issued passengers with printed seating plans when you purchased tickets from GNER by web or phone that included a seat reservation on one of their services.

 

[trickyvegas]

I imagine some passengers would have liked the retention of the smoking carriage.

That was the last form of passenger transport I was allowed to smoke on. Had been using them for about a month before I stumbled upon it.

 

[harri2626]

Grabbing a sandwich or even a hot roll from the buffet is not enough after a full day away. Yes, the GNER/NXEC restaurant meals were expensive, but as has been said elsewhere - not much different from an average London restaurant and you're travelling at the same time.

In the mid-90s I started to promote the use of Leeds/Kings Cross trains to my work colleagues, and suggesting they use the dining car. This to them was a revelation and led to them being "converted" to rail travel both for business and leisure (even taking their families by train which they had never done before).

One of the ways to lessen the cost of the meal was, of course, to buy a cheap standard return and take your chance by filling up the spare seats not taken by first ticket holders in the restaurant car. I think I only once failed to get a seat. In this way, the cost of the meal was almost zero. This was not only a bonus for me, but the catering department got extra revenue and the staff got more tips. Everyone was a winner.

There was only ever one occasion when this became a problem (during the fag-end of BR days) when a stroppy guard, on seeing my standard ticket said, in a loud voice, "OK, but I want you out of the restaurant by Doncaster!" When Doncaster came, I was still eating my dessert, but the waiter came up to me and whispered "Take your time, he's an old ****!!"

Ok, so now we get "free" food in 1st, but this is very hit and miss and of variable quality - certainly not what anyone can call a "meal".

"Nothing could be finer than dinner in the diner" really is true if you get good food, service and scenery. GNER achieved this in spade fulls. When NXEC eliminated most of their restaurant cars I stopped using them for special days out and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[tbtc]

They had a lot in common with Virgin, given their love of presentation, their focus on First Class, their "style over substance" approach, their preference for putting passengers on connecting coach services instead of integrating with other TOCs, their "big plans" that never actually happened (like the new Parkway stations that GNER used to talk about).

Fine it you want to sit in the buffet coach and kid on that you are back in the days of LNER I suppose.

 

[dvboy]

I still have some stainless steel GNER cutlery in a drawer somewhere.

 

[WestCoast]

They had a lot in common with Virgin, given their love of presentation, their focus on First Class, their "style over substance" approach, their preference for putting passengers on connecting coach services instead of integrating with other TOCs, their "big plans" that never actually happened (like the new Parkway stations that GNER used to talk about).

Fine it you want to sit in the buffet coach and kid on that you are back in the days of LNER I suppose.

Believe it or not, that sort of stuff does encourage people (especially affluent business travellers) off the Scotland flights especially. My preference for London to Aberdeen would now be the plane actually - London City to Aberdeen.

 

[tbtc]

Believe it or not, that sort of stuff does encourage people (especially affluent business travellers) off the Scotland flights especially. My preference for London to Aberdeen would now be the plane actually - London City to Aberdeen.

I'm sure it is important for business travellers between London and Aberdeen. But GNER were fixated with this small market of big spenders - I wonder what percentage of passengers each week used the restaurant facilities? 5%?

Rail is always going to struggle with air for 500 mile journeys (though HS2 may change that).

 

[Yew]

The main Problem I can see with the GNER model is the price, there is a big step from a sandwich to a full restaraunt. Did they offer anything in the intermediate price range. (like EMT's all day menu?)

 

[Oswyntail]

I was a regular diner on GNER whether travelling First or Standard. The quality of the cooking was amazing considering the facilities available, and certainly on a par with restaurants charging the same amount. The staff were also cheerfully flexible, ready to hand out extra potatoes or the like if you asked. And the breakfasts were really the meals that just went on coming!
It was the staff on the whole train that was the key, though. I cannot recall anything other than cheerful efficiency, particularly at times of disruption, when passengers were always kept informed. Tbh, this was also a trait of the line under BR, but does contrast with my experiences under Virgin and FGW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The main Problem I can see with the GNER model is the price, there is a big step from a sandwich to a full restaraunt. Did they offer anything in the intermediate price range. (like EMT's all day menu?)

I seem to remember mid-range meals like lasagne being avaiable

 

[PFX]

I'm sure it is important for business travellers between London and Aberdeen. But GNER were fixated with this small market of big spenders - I wonder what percentage of passengers each week used the restaurant facilities? 5%?

Rail is always going to struggle with air for 500 mile journeys (though HS2 may change that).

Further to my previous anecdote, I wasn't a business traveller nor was I a big spender. I used GNER for regular long weekends in London. Not sure if I was representative of other leisure travellers or not, but my long weekend started with the train journey as I felt my break had already begun.

If I recall correctly, when I first started using 1st, the 1st advance from Edinburgh to London was £59 return which at that time, compared favourably with the plane.

That said, I never found the standard class to be anything other than, well, standard. The worst memories I have of it are the bickering kids, obnoxious people on the phone, and groups of males/females on stag weekends. Something which I doubt any TOC would be able to eliminate.

I'm not a GNER fanboy (I have no compunction to like any one TOC over another) I'm merely saying what I found to be good about GNER.

 

[Wath Yard]

I used GNER a lot, both 1st and standard class, and I liked quite a lot about them. Some are superficial but some less so.

* Their use of the NoL EuroStars
* Stylish trains and staff uniforms
* Retaining smoking after several other TOCs banned it
* Good staff training, though some took it a little too far and were quite snooty similar to some waiters in expensive restaurants
* A sense of pride and not trying to reinvent the railways. Their 'Route of the Flying Scotsman' emblems may have been a ridiculous waste of money but it showed pride and an attempt to deliver higher standards rather than the railway just being a method of mass transportation. It was also clever marketing.
* Toasted cheese and ham sandwiches!

Probably the best thing about GNER was when Chris Garnett described the Voyagers as cheap and nasty.

Like all companies they had their faults, and although I do look back on their service slightly nostalgically with rose tinted glasses, in my opinion they were one of the best TOCs to have existed.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I agree with his comment regarding Voyagers
After my experience yesterday with XC! I will always try and travel with East Coast going forward.