What will the result of the Transpennine Upgrade be for places like Marsden, Slaithwaite, etc?

[bob007]

Not sure if this is off topic for this thread, but I’m wondering what people think what the end result of the upgrade will look like for us in places like Marsden, Slaithwaite, Deighton etc in terms of frequency of services? Is the work enabling higher speed inter city services to the detriment of local services, ie May 2018 all over again?

 

[507020]

Not sure if this is off topic for this thread, but I’m wondering what people think the end result of the upgrade will look like for us in places like Marsden, Slaithwaite etc in terms of frequency of services? Is the work enabling higher speed inter city services to the detriment of local services, ie May 2018 all over again?

Is it not the opposite? The works are to enable higher speed InterCity services NOT to the detriment of places like Marsden or Slaithwaite etc. With a large section of requadrupling included through Huddersfield to allow overtaking. Is it not more likely that the stopping frequency will also be increased?

 

[bob007]

Is it not the opposite? The works are to enable higher speed InterCity services NOT to the detriment of places like Marsden or Slaithwaite etc. With a large section of requadrupling included through Huddersfield to allow overtaking. Is it not more likely that the stopping frequency will also be increased?

I have no idea, that’s why I’m asking I didn’t intend for my post to suggest I knew anything

 

[LittleAH]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...pgrade-and-electrification-updates-cp6.88054/

Not sure if this is off topic for this thread, but I’m wondering what people think the end result of the upgrade will look like for us in places like Marsden, Slaithwaite etc in terms of frequency of services?

Is the work enabling higher speed inter city services to the detriment of local services, ie May 2018 all over again?

How is an infrastructure project to improve speed and capacity May 2018 all over again?

 

[Manutd1999]

The original (pre-Covid) plan was for the following service pattern post TRU:

4ph fast Victoria to Leeds
2ph semi-fast Piccadilly to Leeds
2ph stoppers, probably from the bay platforms at Victoria

It wasn't fully clarified, but it's likely the stopper would be split at Huddersfield to increase reliability.

So Marsden, Slaithwaite etc. will gain a more frequent service to Manchester, albeit to Victoria not Piccadilly, but will lose direct services to Leeds.

 

[modernrail]

It is a service to Leeds that is the most important of all of them though isn’t it?

 

[nr758123]

Not sure if this is off topic for this thread, but I’m wondering what people think what the end result of the upgrade will look like for us in places like Marsden, Slaithwaite, Deighton etc in terms of frequency of services? Is the work enabling higher speed inter city services to the detriment of local services, ie May 2018 all over again?

With Deighton there will be complete segregation of express and stopping service, which at least in theory should facilitate a more frequent stopping service, though with the four track section feeding back into a busy two track mixed traffic route between Ravensthorpe and Leeds it's unclear how much additional capacity can be realised. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me could comment.

So far as Marsden and Slaithwaite are concerned, the plan is for three-tracking, which must increase capacity but doesn't completely segregate expresses from freight and stopping services. On a four track section it's fairly easy to see how it works in practice to increase capacity, with three-tracking it's less obvious to see how it works. As I understand it, the Springwood tunnels will still be two tracks only, and from Marsden to Stalybridge will still be two tracks. [I've ignored the NPR tunnel to Marsden as being (1) not in my lifetime (2) probably never happening anyway.]

Is it not more likely that the stopping frequency will also be increased?

One would hope so. Around here we have learned not to take promises from train companies and governments for granted. We were told the 2018 timetable would be an improvement on what went before, and that turned out badly.

How is an infrastructure project to improve speed and capacity May 2018 all over again?

It's not so much about what was/is proposed but about the PR spin that accompanies it. May 2018 consisted of big promises of improvement followed by a much worse service. It was largely overlooked in the media with all the focus being on GTR and Northern, but by far the two worst stations on the entire network for punctuality and reliability (as per ontimetrains) during the 2018 timetable were Slaithwaite & Mossley mostly operated by TPE. When that happens, the next set of big promises of improvement tend now to be met with a certain amount of scepticism.

So Marsden, Slaithwaite etc. will gain a more frequent service to Manchester, albeit to Victoria not Piccadilly, but will lose direct services to Leeds.

Going to Victoria might be quite well-received. Unlike the good folk of Southport who were so opposed to the prospect of going to Victoria rather than Piccadilly, there were long-established commuting patterns from the Huddersfield line stations to Victoria (though probably more significant from Greenfield & Mossley than from Slaithwaite & Marsden). That may have changed since 2018, but one advantage of the stopping trains going to Victoria with connections at Stalybridge for Piccadilly is that it would allow cross-platform or same platform interchange. The bay platforms at Victoria may be the only bit of central Manchester rail infrastructure which is underused.

It is a service to Leeds that is the most important of all of them though isn’t it?

It's certainly useful and would be missed if it ended, but in terms of passenger numbers it's probably not that much greater than to Manchester.

 

[bob007]

I moved to Slaithwaite just before the timetable change in 2018, so you can all blame me (Post hoc ergo propter hoc!). I didn’t have a car at the time, so it was very painful. I’m very wary about any changes now, even if it’s part of a multi-million/billion works programme.

Some of the above went way over my head, but it generally sounds quite positive.

I didn’t know that the plan was to return to Victoria, that’s interesting. I wonder if journeys to the airport would then be easier/quicker backtracking via Huddersfield - depends on the new timetables and platform allocations of those two stations I guess.

I’m ok with a non-direct to Leeds as long as it means just waiting a few minutes at Huddersfield for the service behind us if it means increased reliability.