What would happen if the last train of the night was overcrowded?

[Moonschool]

I've been reading threads about how the TOC will provide an alternative means of travel to your destination if your last train is cancelled. Does this also apply if you were unable to board the train? I'm thinking of stations which are near sports or music events.

I assume the TOC would get you at taxi or hotel?

 

[scrapy]

Whilst many train operators provide alternative transport, I'm not sure that there is an automatic entitlement to it. The NRCOT say you are entitled to alternative transport or a hotel in the case of disruption. It does not define disruption. However if the train leaves on time and has the booked number of carriages then the TOCs could argue there was no disruption, however you could probably still argue your journey was disrupted but I'm not sure how far you'd get other than a refund.

 

[Jan Mayen]

This happened to me at London Bridge many years ago. The last southbound Thameslink left, leaving about 100 people on the platform.
In this case they arranged for a later Thameslink, which was running non stop from Blackfriars to East Croydon via Tulse Hill, to divert and stop at London Bridge.

 

[D1537]

Given that there have been a number of examples of Avanti providing neither transport nor a hotel when they've cancelled last trains recently, I doubt very much if they'd do anything in this circumstance. Other TOCs might actually follow the rules, but I'm not sure this counts as "disruption".

 

[Scott1]

Happens on my patch sometimes, either another train is given a stop order to pick people up or alternative transport is provided.

 

[Sirius]

Once (and only once) I’ve spotted on RTT Scotrail add a 1am departure from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street Low Level. With the timings it looked non-stop - approx 45 mins.

I don’t recall the circumstances but if I were to bet the Edinburgh festivals coinciding with one of the occasions the via Falkirk routes were closed end to end because of electrification.

 

[fgwrich]

I've been on the 01:05 from Waterloo full and standing before (not the best post gig feeling when you just want to sleep the future hangover off ) - In those cases its still been a case of catch it or spend the night in Waterloo.

 

[duncanp]

I've been on the 01:05 from Waterloo full and standing before (not the best post gig feeling when you just want to sleep the future hangover off ) - In those cases its still been a case of catch it or spend the night in Waterloo.

But did you get off the 01:05 from Waterloo at the correct stop?

There must have been a fair few people on that train who fell asleep after too much liquid refreshment and woke up at the terminus, with an expensive taxi ride to look forward to.

 

[M!T]

I was wondering something similar recently...

On one of the strike days there was a skeleton service running on the route I use to commute. There was one train left to run by the time I'd get to the station after work and it concerned me that if this train was full, given that there were very few services and this was the last of the day, what would happen if I couldn't board and, as a consequence, couldn't get home? In the end a colleague who was passing through my town on their way home gave me a lift, so I've no idea how things would have panned out.

 

[riceuten]

I've certainly had from First Capital Connect and Thameslink advice to "get a taxi, pay for it and we'll refund you" when the last train hasn't run and there has been no-one from management around to authorise hotels or taxis.

And then had the taxi fare refund refused because I "didn't seek prior authorisation".

 

[fgwrich]

But did you get off the 01:05 from Waterloo at the correct stop?

There must have been a fair few people on that train who fell asleep after too much liquid refreshment and woke up at the terminus, with an expensive taxi ride to look forward to.

Luckily I did, usually because (and despite being the Southampton Central service) it would often terminate at Basingstoke with onward road transport for those lucky people heading to Winchester, Eastleigh and Southampton.

 

[Russel]

Given how the rail industry has seemingly given up over the last couple of months, what would happen, is probably nothing, you'd have a long walk home.

 

[185]

One guard about to leave 300 people stopped the job at half eleven, and demanded a second unit, despite the 'we've got none' and 'unit diagram' nonsense replies, when both BTP & NR stepped in to offer some polite encouragement... a unit magically came out of the clouds above and flew down from the sky. It was a true railway miracle.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Known extra units put on at last minute , several times at several different locations , and FCC have run an extra service due to severe crowding on the last booked train to their utter credit. (empties from Cricklewood to form an additional to Bedford from St Pancras ....)

My best one , is when back in the day , Leicester I think played West Ham and the game overan so these Midlanders turned up at St Pancras with no train till the next day. So the BTP chaperoned these fans to Euston and demanded a special to Leicester from there.

I know their railway geography can at times , be less than perfect but it took a lot of persuasion that a 321 could not get there. After a lot of "firm conversations" I reluctantly offered an 8 x 321 to Rugby - non stop -as the best we could do. Rugby Night supervisor advised later a huge collection of Police transits attended and took these fans on by road to Leicester. They were incredibly well behaved apparently.

One of my drivers ran an extra on the Watford to St Albans one night without telling anyone - (he was putting the train away and a couple of customers turned up) - well the box spotted it of course , (it only ran to Garston) - the driver , who you could not fault him for his customer service ethos was reminded of the need to communicate and we left it at that.

 

[Facing Back]

Known extra units put on at last minute , several times at several different locations , and FCC have run an extra service due to severe crowding on the last booked train to their utter credit. (empties from Cricklewood to form an additional to Bedford from St Pancras ....)

My best one , is when back in the day , Leicester I think played West Ham and the game overan so these Midlanders turned up at St Pancras with no train till the next day. So the BTP chaperoned these fans to Euston and demanded a special to Leicester from there.

I know their railway geography can at times , be less than perfect but it took a lot of persuasion that a 321 could not get there. After a lot of "firm conversations" I reluctantly offered an 8 x 321 to Rugby - non stop -as the best we could do. Rugby Night supervisor advised later a huge collection of Police transits attended and took these fans on by road to Leicester. They were incredibly well behaved apparently.

One of my drivers ran an extra on the Watford to St Albans one night without telling anyone - (he was putting the train away and a couple of customers turned up) - well the box spotted it of course , (it only ran to Garston) - the driver , who you could not fault him for his customer service ethos was reminded of the need to communicate and we left it at that.

Really great stories thanks. Would either of these happen now?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Really great stories thanks. Would either of these happen now?

Probably not ! - (we also ran a pair of 321's to Wolverhampton to help Virgin one night , back ECS - the 2340 VWT was packed solid and unsafe to run , easy enough with a pilot driver from Bham New street and back - football traffic again I think - it kept me in free WCML breakfasts for a year or so)

 

[dk1]

You wouldn’t normally be left stranded. Seen it many times due to various issues including concerts etc that have caused severe crowding. If a control special cannot be arranged or buses aren’t available, then a fleet of taxis will be used if they can get enough.

 

[Intercity110]

I’d say it depends on the TOC

 

[Iskra]

I’d say it depends on the TOC

And location.

 

[Intercity110]

And location.

as in, london you’ll get a hotel whereas in other cities, alternate travel and rural you might be lucky to get a taxi?

 

[Dr Hoo]

A few years ago (in East Midlands Trains days) I was at Nottingham joining a single Class 158 to Skegness. It was adequate for the numbers travelling. At the last moment a group of four passengers in wheelchairs, with carers, turned up.

Top marks when two Class 153s were rustled up from Eastcroft to provide extra wheelchair spaces.

(Sorry for diverting off strict thread title because this was mid-morning. But well done by Stagecoach.)

 

[mikeb42]

GWR have twice paid for a private hire vehicle for me from London to Bristol when the last train (2330 ish since many years) was physically impossible to board. Once it was just me, on another occasion there were several of us and it took a number of vehicles.

On both occasions those stranded arrived in perfectly reasonable time to walk the entire 200m+ length of the train from the gateline and establish there was no method short of physical force that would enable boarding at any of the doorways.

On one occasion there was no real problem getting someone to agree provision of road transport. On the other it took me countering the objectionable insinuation that we had not arrived on time by insisting that the CCTV footage be obtained and the duty station manager summoned. Once they arrived the discussion became more sensible. Especially given that the reason for the gross overcrowding was the cancellation of the penultimate service an hour earlier due to no driver...

The effort it took to secure additional compensation for the massive delay all this caused is another story.

What would happen now is anyone's guess. Most situations seem to be dealt with in a perfectly reasonable way. When they initially aren't, making it clear you aren't going to be fobbed off while remaining civil usually gets results if you can get hold of someone in a position of authority.

 

[philthetube]

One of my drivers ran an extra on the Watford to St Albans one night without telling anyone - (he was putting the train away and a couple of customers turned up) - well the box spotted it of course , (it only ran to Garston) - the driver , who you could not fault him for his customer service ethos was reminded of the need to communicate and we left it at that.

You should always check, you never kno9w when the station entrance may be being dug up.

 

[riceuten]

as in, london you’ll get a hotel whereas in other cities, alternate travel and rural you might be lucky to get a taxi?

That's the theory. I certainly remember being told at Kings Cross

i) there were "no taxis available" (other than the 20 or 30 queued up outside) - but they had to be a particular firm, who had none going spare
ii) there were "no replacement buses available" (at 1am, I am not sure they even bothered to ask)
iii) the "manager who could authorise hotel rooms was not available"

as a prelude to "get a (different) taxi and send us the receipt", followed by a letter stating "as you did not seek prior authorisation* for a taxi so we are unable to refund you" when I sent them the receipt.

* from whom? There was one customer services assistant on duty who was specifically not authorised to order taxis.

 

[Bill57p9]

You should always check, you never kno9w when the station entrance may be being dug up.

Or locked...

Back in 2020 I experienced ScotRail terminating the last Glasgow to Carlisle service at Kilmarnock.
Fortunately the station office was still staffed however it took some polite but firm persuasion to get the individual present to get control to authorise alternative transport.